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 Post subject: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:27 pm 
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Introduction

Almost anyone who has read parts of this forum is aware that Interviews One and Two underwent revisions and aspects of the interviews were changed. But how many of us are aware of the extent of the changes? Even though I thought I was aware of the changes, I was quite suprised at just how much was different from my hazy recollection of the changes. In the interests of settling this question once and for all and removing all those cobwebs from my thinking and those of my fellow travellers, I have created two PDF files that track all the changes, including changes that may appear innocuous. I realize that some may not even want to take a look at this material or may consider it of no importance -- perhaps -- but whether for better or for worse, it is part of the landscape of the WingMakers mythology. It is something that we have to reckon with instead of trying to sweep under the carpet. Perhaps our process of enganging with all aspects of the WingMakers mythology (including what appear to be unpalatable aspects) is part and parcel of our own transformation and spiritual unfoldment. If you would like copies of the two PDf files, contact me and I will forward them. (P.S. I couldn't attach the files to this post because PDF extensions are not accepted)

[[ Subsequent to this initial post, the PDF files are now available online at the following address for those who want to review the files: http://www.wanttoknow.info/wingmakersor ... ewschanges ]]

Listed below are extracts of the main changes that both interviews underwent. Obviously a great deal of the material remains the same, so rather than duplicating that "redundant" material, I have only posted the main changes. If you want a more detailed look at the changes please review the PDFs.

As you review the changes, remember that the material in blue was deleted and the material in violet was added.


Changes to WingMakers Interview One

LEGEND: Words deleted / [Words inserted]

First Interview of Dr. Anderson [Interview 1]
By Anne
What follows is a session I recorded of Dr. Anderson [Neruda] on December 27, 1997. He gave permission for me to record his answers to my questions. This was the first of five interviews that I was able to tape-record before he left or disappeared. I have preserved these transcripts precisely as they occurred. No editing was performed, and I've tried my best to include the exact words and grammar used by Dr. Anderson [Neruda].

Main Changes to Interview 1

Interview 1/Extract 1

Dr. Anderson: . . . "I decided to leave the project after I was successful in deducing the access code for the optical disc [, and felt that the ACIO was going to prevent the public from accessing the information contained within the Ancient Arrow site. There were other reasons, but it's too complicated to explain in a concise response."]. Shortly thereafter I became aware of what I can only describe as the presence of the WingMakers. I felt as though they were visiting me . . . even assisting me in my work . . . "

[Sarah: "What did Fifteen do when he found out you were leaving?"

Dr. Neruda: "He never had a chance to respond directly to me because I left without a word. But I'm certain that he's angry and feels betrayed."]


Anne: "When you say 'visiting you', what evidence did you have that the WingMakers might be visiting you?"

Dr. Anderson: "I was spending 70 hours per week working on the decoding formulas for the symbol pictures, and this went on for about 8 months. During this time I tried every conceivable combination to create an access code to the optical disc. I was convinced it was the only way to open it. I was also convinced that it was purposely made to be difficult, at least to our present-day brains. It was almost as though the struggle to decode their language was exercising a part of my brain or nervous system that was enabling me to communicate with them.
"I began to hear them speaking to me. It began as a word or two . . . then a sentence . . . maybe just once a day. It didn't make much sense . . . what I heard. But then one day I was working on a chamber painting and I saw something move in the painting. One of the symbols moved and it was absolutely not an illusion or trick of the light. Then I realized that the WingMakers could interact with me, that they were time traveling to my time and that somehow their paintings were actually portals in which they moved through time.
"It was then I began to hear their instructions, or more precisely, their thoughts. I was given mental images on how to use the Sumerian language to decode their own symbol pictures. I thought I was possibly going crazy. I felt like my mind was playing tricks on me . . . that I was working too hard and needed to take a holiday, but I listened to the voices because it seemed plausible what I was being instructed to do. When I finished with the access code and it worked, I knew then that I was indeed communicating with them.

Anne: "Did you tell anyone? I mean about the fact that you were communicating with the WingMakers?"

Dr. Anderson: "I kept it a secret. I wasn't sure how I would be able to explain the phenomenon and I didn't want to arouse suspicions, so I went about my business and began developing the translation indexes for the 8,110 pages of text that was discovered within the optical disc. It was essential that we had a letter-for-letter index in order to retain the meaning of their language . . . we called this translation granularity. And as I started the process of translating the optical disc, I began to see fragment images of the WingMakers . . . sort of like a holographic image that would appear and then disappear in a matter of seconds.
"They visited me a total of three times -- always in my home at night -- and told me that I had been selected to be their liaison or spokesperson. Of course I asked them why me and not Fifteen, and they said that Fifteen was unable to speak for them because he was already the pawn of the Corteum."


Anne:"Tell me about Fifteen. What is he like?"

Interview 1/Extract 2

Dr. Anderson: "This initiative was really conducted by the Labyrinth Group and not the ACIO, so I'm making that distinction just to be accurate, and not to be critical of your question. For Fifteen, it was hard to believe that a time capsule could activate or construct a bridge that would lead someone to become a traveler. This seemed like an extraordinarily remote possibility. He felt that the time capsule may hold the technology to enable BST, but he didn't believe it was merely an educational or developmental experience.
["Also, and more importantly, the true identity of the WingMakers became clear as we deployed our RV technologies."]
"The other outcome of immersion in the time capsule's contents was a sense of loyalty to the WingMakers' philosophy and approach to life. I found myself becoming less and less technology-centric and more and more spiritually focused. There was a sense of entrainment caused by their teaching that I couldn't explain. For whatever reason, I began to loose my objectivity as a researcher, and felt myself more of an advocate of the WingMakers."

Anne: "What do you mean by the word advocate?"

Dr. Anderson: "Just that I was sympathetic to what I construed as the WingMakers' agenda."
Anne: "And what was . . . or perhaps more appropriately, what is their agenda in your opinion?"

Dr. Anderson: "In my opinion, their agenda is to activate, through their time capsules the new consciousness that enables BST. I believe the WingMakers are trying to help us develop our consciousness . . . our human abilities . . . so we're able to utilize BST successfully as a defensive weapon. But more generally, I think this new consciousness is also -- in itself -- a defensive weapon."

Anne: "But if the WingMakers are time travelers themselves, in possession of BST, why can't they deal with the hostile aliens in 2011?"

Dr. Anderson: "I don't know. Believe me, I've thought about that one a great deal, as has the team working on the project. Perhaps BST isn't their primary concern for us, but rather helping us move from the 3-dimensional 5 sensory domain to the more potent multidimensional 7 sensory consciousness. Perhaps they're unable to access the intervention points because they lack some critical piece of information. Or perhaps they're unaware of the need because we already solved it in the year 2011.
"All I know is that we have about 6 different hypotheses, and we just don't have enough data to make a conclusion. Bear in mind that only about 7% of the text from the optical disc has been secured and translated to English. The ACIO is missing much of the information yet that will allow it to understand the true nature of the time capsules and the purpose of the WingMakers."


[Note: The following section was inserted]

[Sarah: "First, what're RV technologies?"

Dr. Neruda: "Think of it as psychic spying. The ACIO has a department that specializes in Remote Viewing technology, and within this department was a woman of unparalleled capability as an RV. She was assigned to the project as its RV, and she was a critical element in determining the identity and purpose of the WingMakers."

Sarah: "Can we come back to the RV technology? Just tell me what she discovered as to the identity of the WingMakers."

Dr. Neruda: "She was very attuned to the first artifact we recovered, which turned out to be a homing device that essentially led us to the Ancient Arrow site. We conducted two official RV 10
sessions -- one that I monitored and another that Fifteen monitored. She was able to make contact with the original planners of the Ancient Arrow site. Through these two RV sessions we were able to determine that the identity of the WingMakers was an ancient -- the most ancient -- race of humankind."

Sarah: "When you say most ancient, what do you mean?"

Dr. Neruda: "We know of them mostly through a few ancient manuscripts that were reputedly channeled by these beings. There're a few myths in Mayan and Sumerian text that refer to these being as well. But the most definitive text comes from the Corteum who defined them, in our terms, as the Central Race."

Sarah: "How can they be so ancient if they're so technologically advanced?"

Dr. Neruda: The Central Race resides in the most primeval galaxies nearest the centermost part of the universe. According to Corteum cosmology, the structure of the universe is segmented into seven superuniverses that each revolve around a central universe. The central universe is the material home of First Source or the Creator. According to the Corteum, in order to govern the material universe, First Source must inhabit materiality and function in the material universe. The central universe is the material home of First Source and is eternal. It's surrounded by dark gravity bodies that make it essentially invisible even to those galaxies that lie closest to its periphery.
"The Corteum teach that the central universe is stationary and eternal, while the seven superuniverses are creations of time and revolve around the central universe in a counterclockwise rotation. Surrounding these seven superuniverses is "outer" or peripheral space, which is non-physical elementals consisting of non-baryonic matter or antimatter, which rotates around the seven superuniverses in a clockwise rotation. This vast outer space is expansion room for the superuniverses to expand into. The known universe that your astronomers see is mostly a small fragment of our superuniverse and the expansion space at its outermost periphery. Hubble-based astronomy extrapolates, based on a fractional field of view, that there are 50 billion galaxies in our superuniverse, each containing over 100 billion stars. However, most astronomers remain convinced that our universe is singular. It is not -- according to the Corteum."
"On the fringe of the central universe resides the Central Race, which contain the original human DNA template of creation. However, they are such an ancient race that they appear to us as Gods, when indeed they represent our future selves. Time and space are the only variables of distinction. The Central Race is known to some as the creator gods who developed the primal template of the human species and then, working in conjunction with the Life Carriers, seeded the galaxies as the universes expanded. Each of the seven superuniverses has a distinctive purpose and relationship with the central universe via the Central Race based on how the Central Race experimented with the DNA to achieve distinct, but compatible physical embodiments to be soul carriers.

Sarah: "I don't even know what to ask next."

Dr. Neruda: "The Central Race is divided into seven tribes, and they are master geneticists and the progenitors of the humanoid race. In effect, they are our future selves. Quite literally they represent what we will evolve into in time and towards in terms of space."

Sarah: "So, you're saying that the WingMakers are our future selves and that they're building these time capsules in order to communicate with us?"

Dr. Neruda: "The Labyrinth Group believed that the WingMakers are representatives of the Central Race, and that they created our particular human genotype to become suitable soul carriers in our particular universe. The Ancient Arrow site is part of a broader, interconnected system of seven sites installed on each continent. Together, we believe this system constitutes a defensive technology."

Sarah: "So there're are seven Ancient Arrow sites?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes."

Sarah: "And you know where they are?"

Dr. Neruda: "I know generally where the remaining six are, but I don't know their specific location. They remain undiscovered so far as I know."

Sarah: "Why would the most advanced race -- or future version of humanity -- place such a sophisticated array of technologies and artifacts on our planet? What're they afraid of?"

Dr. Neruda: "They have an ancient, formidable enemy, which Fifteen calls the Animus."

Sarah: "We're back to the synthetics?"

Dr. Neruda: "One in the same."

Sarah: "So, the WingMakers are protecting their human genetics from the invasion of the Animus, and they placed these sites -- or defensive technologies on earth to somehow prevent them from taking over the planet?"

Dr. Neruda "That's essentially what we believe. However, it's more than human DNA. It includes all the higher order animals, humans being one of a collective of about one hundred and twenty species."

Sarah: "And you know all of this because of a psychic's vision, a few ancient manuscripts, and the Corteum?"

Dr. Neruda: "I admit it sounds implausible, but yes, we know all of this from sources that no one in the public domain can access or corroborate."

Sarah: "So the WingMakers, or Central Race, created us and presumably hundreds of other species, planted us on earth, and then built a complex defensive system to protect their genetics. Is that the situation?"

Dr. Neruda: "The best way to conceptualize who these beings are, is to consider them as geneticists who were the first born of First Source. The galaxies in which the Central Race resides are approximately eighteen billion years old and their genetics are immeasurably more developed than our own. They are the optimal soul carrier in that they can co-exist in the material world and the non-material dimensions simultaneously. This is because their genetic blueprint has been fully activated."

Sarah: "You sound like you're a believer in this philosophy, but I don't understand why you're such an authority if it's the Corteum cosmology. Did they teach you this?"

Dr. Neruda: "Part of our TTP with the Corteum extended to their cosmology, and they have the equivalent of our Bible called Liminal Cosmogony that I translated. It was our first detailed exposure to the Central Race and their behind-the-scenes influence of genetic evolution and transformation."

Sarah: "What do you mean 'behind-the-scenes'?

Dr. Neruda: "The WingMakers have created a DNA template that is form-fitted to each of the seven superuniverses, enabling a unique and dominant soul carrier to emerge within each of the superuniverses. This soul carrier -- in our case -- is the human genotype. Within our genetic substrate is the inborn structure that will ultimately deliver our species to the central universe as a perfected species. The WingMakers have encoded this within our DNA, and set forth the natural and artificial trigger points that cause our genetic structures to alter and adapt. In this process, it activates parts of our nervous system that feed the brain with a much richer stream of data from our five senses and two additional senses that we have yet to consciously activate."

Sarah: "It sounds a little too manufactured."

Dr. Neruda: "What do you mean?"

Sarah: "Just that humans will one day aspire to the heights of the WingMakers, but our salvation is something invisible that's encoded in our genes. It feels like we're manufactured to attain the same view or perspective of our creators. What happened to freewill?"

Dr. Neruda: "You raise a good question, Sarah. I can't defend this system of belief. I can recite any passage you want from the books that I know, but it's just someone's opinion who's taken the time to write it down.
"I can tell you that in my experience, the wider the range of possibilities as one moves toward more of a multidimensional thought stream and activity path, the narrower one's choices 13
become as they pertain to rightful living. You could even say that freewill diminishes as one becomes realized to all possibilities."

Sarah: "I know you're trying to help, but you lost me -- but don't try and explain again. Let' s just chalk it up to my dense brain getting in the way."

Dr. Neruda: "If it's anything, it's my poor explanation. It's difficult to define these things in a way that can enter your consciousness at its preparation point."

Sarah: "You said earlier that the WingMakers encoded trigger points that were both natural and artificially stimulated. What did you mean?"

Dr. Neruda: "Again, I want to emphasize that this is all according to the Corteum. We have very little proof of any of this from our own empirical research. However, the Labyrinth Group has a high degree of trust in the Corteum's cosmological systems of belief because of their history as an explorer race, and their superior application of physics.
"Our human DNA is designed. It did not evolve from forces of time, matter, and energy. It was designed by the Central Race, and part of this design was to encode within the DNA template certain super sensory capabilities that would enable a human to perceive itself in a very specific way."

Sarah: "In what way?"

Neruda: "As a soul carrier that is connected to the universe like a ray of light is connected to a spectrum of colors as it passes through a prism."

Sarah: "Could you be a bit more concrete?"

Dr. Neruda (laughing): "I'm sorry, sometimes I quote passages -- it's easier than coming up with my own explanation every time.

Sarah: "No doubt one of the curses of having a photographic memory."

Dr. Neruda: "Perhaps you're right. I'll try in my own words.
"Our DNA is designed to respond to natural imagery, words, tones, music, and other external forces."

Sarah: What do you mean by 'respond'?"

Dr. Neruda: "It can activate or de-activate certain components of its structure that enable adaptation in both the biological and higher states of beingó"

Sarah: "Like?"

Dr. Neruda: "Like the state of enlightenment as described by some of our planet's spiritual teachers.

Sarah: "I've never heard of enlightenment as something that one adapts to."

Dr. Neruda: "That's only because mystics and scientists alike do not understand this aspect of the human DNA template. Everything, whether it's a biological environment or a state of mind, requires adaptation on the part of the person undergoing the experience. Adaptation is the primary intelligence designed within our genetic code, and it is this intelligence that is awakened, or triggered, with certain stimuli.
"The stimuli can be artificially induced, that is to say, the Central Race has encoded adaptation to higher vibratory frequencies within our DNA that they can trigger through catalytic images, words, or sounds."

Sarah: "Okay, so now you're coming full circle to the purpose of the artifacts found at the Ancient Arrow site. Correct?"

Dr. Neruda: "I believe they're related. To what extent I'm not sure. But from reading the information contained within the optical disc, I'm quite certain that the WingMakers intend the music, art, poetry, and philosophy to be catalytic."

Sarah: "But for what purpose?"

Dr. Neruda: "Let's save that for a later time. I promise we'll get to that, but it's a very long story."]


Anne: "Let's take a short break and resume after we've had a chance to grab some more coffee. Okay?"

Dr. Anderson: "Okay."

(Break for about 10 minutes .

Interview 1/Extract 3

Anne: "Can you elaborate on the WingMakers and who you think they are or represent?"

Dr. Anderson: "I don't know who they are, but they represent themselves as human time travelers from the middle part of the 28th century. They could very well be the future version of the Labyrinth Group, or some other powerful organization. They seem to have a very well integrated sub-culture in that their language is clearly a combination of many extinct languages which they could only have knowledge of if they had access to ACIO information systems, or were indeed time travelers . . . or both, I suppose.
"Assuming they're accurately representing themselves, they are very advanced technologically. The Labyrinth Group holds that BST is the most advanced technology conceivable. Anyone who possesses it and can successfully utilize it, is clearly more advanced than our contemporary human culture or any of the extraterrestrials we are currently interfacing with."


Anne: "But if the WingMakers are [Back to the WingMakers for a moment, if they're] so advanced technologically, why time capsules? Why not just appear one day and announce what ever it is they want to share? Why this game of hide and seek and hidden time capsules?"

Dr. Anderson: "Their motives are not clear. I think they planted [left behind] these time capsules as their way to bring culture and technology from their time to ours. And they decided to do this by leaving behind these miraculous structures or time capsules that, once discovered, would lead people to a new philosophy or level of understanding. I think they're as interested in our philosophical outlook as our discovery of BST. Perhaps more so. [We also believe that these sites represent a defensive weapon. A very sophisticated defensive weapon.]

Interview 1/Extract 4

Anne: "Okay. Let's talk a little bit about your impressions or insights into the WingMakers' philosophy and culture [ET situation that you spoke of earlier. To me, this is the part that's most fascinating]."

Dr. Anderson: "First of all, again I want to remind you that only a fraction of their writings have been translated. So whatever insights I may have, are limited by a partial understanding -- at best -- of their culture and philosophy. Also, I want to remind you that the WingMakers may not represent the broader culture and philosophy of their time. Our interpretation was that they represented a subset or subculture of their time.
"With those qualifications, I'll say that the WingMakers have the benefit of about 750 additional years of evolutionary thought. We presume that humans of this era are active members of the Federation of our galaxy . . . "


[Dr. Neruda: "First of all, I want to explain that the ETs that interact with our world's governments are not the same ones that interact with the Labyrinth Group."

Sarah: "But I thought you said that the Greys were involved with the ACIO, or at least one of its factions."

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, they're also known as the Zetas, but as I said, they're many different factions of the Greys and the one that the ACIO is working with are the alpha faction, and they don't operate with our government organizations because they are too suspicious of them, and frankly, don't view them as intelligent enough to even warrant their time."

Sarah: "What about the Corteum?"

Dr. Neruda: "The Corteum are a very sophisticated culture, integrating technology, culture, and science in a very holistic manner. For different reasons, they're not involved with our governments either, mainly because of their role with the Federation. "]


Interview 1/Extract 5

Anne: "You didn't really answer my question though . . . [--] Do you think it can be developed in 12 years?"

Dr. Anderson: "I don't know. Certainly I hope so, but BST is not our only line of defense. The Labyrinth Group has devised many defensive weapons, not all of which I'll describe to you. The alien race foretold in prophecy is not even aware of earth at this time. They originate from a different galaxy altogether. The prophecy is that they will send probes to our galaxy and determine that earth is the best genetic library and natural resource repository in the Milky Way that can be quickly assimilated. They will visit earth in 2011. [The Animus have visited earth before, approximately three hundred million years ago, but they didn't find anything present on our planet to cause them to invest the time and resources to colonize our planet. When their probes return in thirteen years, they will think differently.]
"The prophecy says [Our analysis is that] they will befriend our governments and utilize the United Nations as an ally. They will set about orchestrating a unified world government through the United Nations. And when the first elections are held in 2018, they will overtake the United Nations and rule as the world government. This will be done through trickery and deception.
"I mention these prophecies [our analysis -- taken from three different RV sessions --] because they're quite specific as to the dates, and so we have the equivalent of 19 [nineteen] years to produce and deploy BST.

Interview 1/Extract 6

Anne: "Okay, back to this prophecy or alien race. What do they want? I mean . . . [--] why travel such a far distance to rule earth?"

Dr. Anderson: "This seems such a funny question to me. Excuse me for laughing. It's just that humans do not understand how special earth is. It is truly, as planets are concerned, a special planet. It has such a tremendous bio-diversity and a complex range of ecosystems. Its natural resources are unique and plentiful. It's a genetic library that's the equivalent of a galactic zoo.
"The aliens that are coming [The Animus] desire to own this planet and add it to its colonization plans [in order to own its genetics]. As I've already mentioned, this is a synthetic race. A species that can clone itself and fabricate more and more of its population to serve the purpose of its colonization program. However, it desires more diversity, and earth will represent an opportunity for it to diversify [than the expansion of its empire. It desires to become a soul carrier -- something reserved for pure biological organisms. Synthetic organisms are not able to carry the higher frequencies of soul, which absolutely require an organic nervous system.]"

[Sarah: "So they want a soul?"

Dr. Neruda: "They want to expand throughout the universe and develop their organic nature through genetic reengineering. They want to become soul carriers in order to achieve immortality. They also want to prove what they already believe, that they are superior to all other pure organics."]


Interview 1/Extract 7

Dr. Anderson: "I'm impressed by the nature of your questions. And I wish I could answer them all, but here again, I don't know the answer. I would assume the federation and the WingMakers operate in unison and have a mutually beneficial relationship, but I'm not . . . "

Anne: "But if you can use your remote viewing technology to eavesdrop on this alien race in an entirely different galaxy, why can't you observe the WingMakers and the [F]federation?"

Dr. Anderson: "Actually, we've tried our remote viewing technology on the WingMakers. It was one of the first things we tried. But we got nothing. In fact, it was the first time when our technology was completely ineffective. We assumed that the WingMakers had developed some form of security that prevented remote viewing. But we weren't sure.

Interview 1/Extract 8

Dr. Anderson: "Yes, I understand. But I've shown you some of the ACIO technologies and photos of the site and its contents, so these must be some form of validation."

Anne: "For me it is, but it doesn't validate all the many claims you've made tonight. For all I know, this Holographic Fractal Object technology you showed me is not so unusual or extraordinary. I'm not a good judge of these things. And even if it were, it certainly doesn't validate the existence of a galactic federation or the WingMakers for that matter. [For me, it validates that something is going on that I've never heard about. Namely, the ACIO is a new organization that's never been talked about -- at least not in my journalistic circles. But your photographs and stories don't validate what you've explained tonight. They're in the category of teasers. Something the National Enquirer is fond of broadcasting, but this isn't the brand of journalism I subscribe to."

Dr. Neruda: "Let's talk some more in the next few days. Take the time to read some of the materials translated from the optical disc, and in the meantime, just be neutral. Okay?"

Sarah: "Don't assume I'm not interested, or too much a skeptic to do anything with this stuff. I just need some time to get my bearings as to what I should do with this story and the evidence you've provided."]


Dr. Anderson: "Well . . . perhaps you're right . . . we should end this interview. I promised you several interviews before I left. Are we still on for tomorrow night?"


Last edited by Jarcq on Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:37 pm
Posts: 82
Changes to WingMakers Interview Two

LEGEND: Words deleted / [Words inserted]

Second Interview of Dr. Anderson [Interview 2]
By Anne

What follows is a session I recorded of Dr. Anderson [Neruda] on December 28, 1997. He gave permission for me to record his answers to my questions. This is the transcript of that session. This was one of five times I was able to tape-record our conversations. I have preserved these transcripts precisely as they occurred. No editing was performed, and I've tried my best to include the exact words, phrasing, and grammar used by Dr. Anderson [Neruda].

(It's recommended that you read the December 27, 1997 interview before reading this one.)

Main Changes to Interview 2

Interview 2/Extract 1

Anne: "Well, I guess I'd like to stay more centered on the WingMakers and [the arftifacts of ] their time capsule."

Dr. Anderson: "That's fine with me." [But let me make one clarification first.]

Anne: "Okay, last night you mentioned that the WingMakers had appointed you to be their liaison. You also said that they wanted you to be their liaison because Fifteen was a pawn of the Corteum. Can you elaborate on that?"

Dr. Anderson: "I was apparently selected to be their spokesperson in this time, and not only help translate their text, paintings, and symbol pictures, but also help in bringing these things to the public's attention. In other words, I don't think the WingMakers desired the contents of their time capsules to be held in a secret repository deep within the bowels of the Labyrinth Group.
"As for Fifteen, I think the WingMakers felt he was too involved with the Corteum to objectively assess the WingMakers' time capsule and determine how to bring it to the public's attention. Bear in mind, Fifteen has a single-minded ambition to successfully deploy BST (an acronym that stands for Blank Slate Technology). To the extent the WingMakers' time capsule accelerated or facilitated this development, Fifteen would be extremely interested in the WingMakers. To the extent they did not, it would likely be his objective to seal the project and move it to the back burner of the Labyrinth Group's research agenda.
"Culture and philosophy were important to Fifteen, but only to the extent of personal enhancement . . . they didn't have a place in the Labyrinth Group's research agenda unless it somehow had direct bearing on developing interactive time travel."

Anne: "But didn't you say that in the process of decoding and translating their language that your intelligence was effected in a way that would make it more adaptive to the stresses of time travel?"

Dr. Anderson: "I don't think it was a question of intelligence. I think it was more of a multidimensional awareness or ability to sense the higher circuits of consciousness, which I suppose, is a form of intelligence. It seemed to me that the WingMakers were particularly concerned with developing a holistic sensory perception, and that the reason they encoded their language was to develop these higher senses. Again, I asserted that the ability to interactively time travel requires a 7 sensory, multidimensional perspective. It can't be done in the 3-dimensional 5 sensory context of normal human awareness."

Anne: "But still . . . if you had these enhancements to your consciousness or intelligence and you thought they were integral to the deployment of BST, why wouldn't Fifteen listen to you?"

Dr. Anderson: "He did listen . . . it's just that he didn't agree with my theory. The moment I mentioned that I had an interaction with the WingMakers, he seemed to discount my assertions."
Anne: "What was it about your interactions that seemed to persuade him that you were misguided or not trustworthy?"

Dr. Anderson: "I was the first one to read their language and understand it. Once we unlocked the optical disc, we printed out over 8,100 pages of symbol pictures like the ones contained in their art work, except much more varied, and, in some instances, much more complex. There were 23 chapters of text or symbol pictures -- each consisting of about 350 pages. I decoded the first segment or chapter of this text using a version of the Sumerian translation index I had set-up for the access code to the optical disc.
"However, as I began to decode and translate the text I began to gain an understanding into the WingMakers' culture. They had philosophical discourses that were fascinating to read . . . "


[ Note: The following section was inserted ]

Dr. Neruda: "That's fine with me. [ But let me make one clarification first.
"The Ancient Arrow site was labeled initially as an Extraterrestrial Time Capsule, or ETC, however, it is not actually, in my opinion, a time capsule."

Sarah: "Good, let's start right there. What exactly is it, in your opinion?"

Dr. Neruda: "The site is part of a larger structure that's interconnected through some means I don't understand. We know there're seven sites that have been constructed on earth -- presumably in the ninth century. We know that these sites have some defensive purpose, and we know that the sites planners represent themselves are culture bearers, and are most likely representatives from the Central Race."

Sarah: "I hear a lot about 'defensive weapon', but how can these wall paintings or the music artifacts be considered part of a defensive weapon?"

Dr. Neruda: "We know from our RV sessions, that the WingMakers designed these sites to be more than a defensive weapon, otherwise, as you point out, the cultural artifacts wouldn't make any sense. However, it also doesn't make sense that they'd be completely unrelated to the objectives of a defensive weapon. I'd make the hypothesis that they're DNA triggers."

Sarah: "You mean they activate something within our DNA--as you were describing last night?"

Dr. Neruda: "Correct."

Sarah: "And how does this relate to a defensive weapon?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was our hypothesis that the cultural artifacts, if studied or examined, would somehow activate parts of our DNA. For what purpose we weren't certain, but I intuit that it has something to do with stimulating our fluid intelligence and enabling sensory inputs that have been dormant within our central nervous system."

Sarah: "And do you have a hypothesis as to why?"

Dr. Neruda: "Presumably the enhancements to the central nervous system makes the defensive weapon more effective."

Sarah: "It's so dang easy to get side-tracked when talking with you, but I'm going to resist the temptation to move into a line of neurological discourse, not that I know anything about it anyway.
"Tell me more about your role with the WingMakers' time capsule--or whatever you want to call it."

Dr. Neruda: "I think for accuracy and consistency, we can refer to it as the Ancient Arrow site. As I said before, I'm confident that it's not a time capsule.
"To your question, though, I was working with a computer we call ZEMI, helping to translate the data contained on the optical disc found in the twenty-third chamber of the site. It contained text, symbol pictures, mathematical equations, and what turned out to be music files.
"Once the site was located, my primary focus was to decode the optical disc and make the data therein sensible and, as much as possible, applicable to BST."

Sarah: "Did any of it apply to BST?"

Dr. Neruda: "Not directly, at least nothing that I've read. The text was of a more philosophical nature. I was the first one to read their language. Once we unlocked the optical disc, we printed out eight thousand forty-five pages of symbol pictures like the ones contained in their art work, except much more varied, and, in some instances, much more complex. There were 23 chapters of text or symbol pictures -- each consisting of about 350 pages.
"I read the first segment or chapter of this text and was amazed to find that there were passages of text -- in the introduction -- that were only readable to me. This was additional confirmation that I had a role to play in getting this information into the public domain."

Sarah: "Are you saying that the text you read disappeared after you read it or that you deleted it?"

Dr. Neruda: "It disappeared. It deleted itself."

Sarah: So only the first eyes would see the message?"

Dr. Neruda: "Correct."

Sarah: "So what did it say?"

Dr. Neruda: "I can recite the exact words if you like, but it would take a few minutes."

Sarah: "Give me a summary."

Dr. Neruda: "The essence of this passage was validating what the ACIO had already known -- that the Animus were sending probes in 2011, and it was written in the form of a warning. It stated that the WingMakers had installed a defensive weapon on earth that would render the planet invisible to the Animus probes."

Sarah: "Invisible? How?"

Dr. Neruda: "They didn't explain with any precision. They wrote that higher frequencies were emanating from the central universe, and that these seven sites comprised a collective technology that somehow coordinated these frequencies or higher energies to bring about a shift in the planet's vibratory structure, enabling life on the planet to survive the shift and remain undetected by the Animus."

Sarah: "All life forms?"

Dr. Neruda: "Technically, the text didn't specify."

Sarah: "And this was for your eyes only?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, the ZEMI operator did not find any evidence of this section of the text. It completely disappeared."

Sarah: "What else did it say?"

Dr. Neruda: "It confirmed that we're dealing with the Central Race, and that they want the cultural artifacts from the seven sites to be shared with the public. These elements were connected to the effectiveness of the defensive weapon."

Sarah: "In what way?"

Dr. Neruda: "In the sense that the materials activate aspects of our DNA that make the shift easier, or perhaps possible, I'm not certain because they were a bit vague."

Sarah: "So, by reading the philosophy I'm supposed to be able to become invisible?"

Dr. Neruda: "I think it's more holistic than that. They left behind poetry, music, paintings, and even a glossary. It seems to me that all of these elements -- in addition to the philosophy -- are connected. Also, I'm suggesting that something fundamentally changes when these materials are absorbed, and perhaps this change, whatever it is, resonates with the technology from the seven sites."

Sarah: "Sounds far-fetched to me. Why do you believe this?"

Dr. Neruda: "I've absorbed the materials and I've noticed changes."

Sarah: "Such as?"

Dr. Neruda: "I defected from the ACIO. To me, that's the biggest change imaginable."

Sarah: "You're not implying that the materials you've read induced you to defect are you?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was a combination of many things, but it certainly had a significant impact on my decision. Did you read any of the materials I left last night?" ]


Interview 2/Extract 2

Anne: "I read the ones you left for me, [the first section and a little of the glossary.] I didn't understand most of what they said [it]. They seemed [It was] too abstract. They [It] did have an effect on me though . . . [--] they [it] managed to put me to sleep every time I tried to read them."

Dr. Anderson: "I know they're [it's] a little intense, but you have to admit, they're [it's] very interesting if for no other reason than they're representative of how humans [our distant ancestors] -- or at least some humans -- will believe 750 years from now [think and believe]. They're literally the only records we have of our future belief systems.
"But what I was going to say before, is that they not only had philosophy, they also had poetry and musical notations. So I began to theorize that each chamber had a set of objects: a painting, poem, philosophical discourse, musical composition, and a technological artifact that held a specific message or theme. And the time capsule was designed to be understood by linking these themes together just as I had linked the 23 master symbols from the paintings to access the optical disc."

Anne: "And what do you think was the message they were trying to convey?"

Dr. Anderson: "I don't know. We only finished decoding 2 entire chambers when I had left. And since leaving, I've managed to decode most of the third chamber as well. However, the technological artifact that was found in each of the chambers remains a mystery. In most instances, they can't even be probed by our technology to determine where or how to activate them.


Anne: "But [And] you have a copy of the 8100 [all of] pages of text?"

Dr. Anderson: "Yes."

Anne: "And can I see it?"

Dr. Anderson: "Yes, but it's not something I carry around with me."

Anne: "I still don't understand why all the complicated encoding and decoding and Sumerian translation indexes. For God's sake, these are humans aren't they? Why don't they simply speak English or at least some variant of it? I mean 750 years ago people pretty much spoke the same languages that we do today. Why would they change so dramatically in another 750 years?" ["Tell me a little bit about the translation process since you were involved in it?"]

Dr. Anderson: "I can only speculate that if the purpose of the time capsule were to somehow activate higher circuits of learning or intelligence, then perhaps the time capsule would be purposely encoded in order to force a decoding. And in this process of decoding, the activation is triggered. If they did it in simple English or some other language of the day, we'd miss the activation of our higher senses. That's my hypothesis."

Anne: "You said last night that only about 7% of the text is translated thus far, and that's after months of working on it after discovering the translation indexes. If you have such powerful computing technology, why can't the Labyrinth Group decode and translate the entire volume of text in a matter of a keystroke?"

Dr. Anderson: "It's more complicated than that. The WingMakers' language is based on 98 different symbol pictures instead of the 26 found in our own alphabet. The computer-based translation indexes were applied to the entire text, but we found so many inconsistencies in the semantics that it became literally impossible to rely on the computer versions. Their language is much more precise than our own and therefore more sensitive to semantic accuracy.
"Because of the semantic differentials it was necessary to cross-check the translation manually. Which meant that about every 5th word needed to be tested or verified for its meaning in the context of the sentence and paragraph structure it was placed into. And the only way this could be done effectively is with myself and another colleague who was helping in the manual translation."

Anne: "Still it seems to have taken you an awful long time to complete just 7% of their text . . . "

Dr. Anderson: "But for every page of text, we invested the equivalent of about 20 hours of painstaking cross-checking to ensure the accuracy of the translation. The translation is the key to the usefulness of the time capsule, and it doesn't make any sense to rush the translation and draw wrong conclusions because of semantic or translation errors.
"In our translation indexes there are many dimensions where errors can be made and at each level, if they're not caught, they compound or amplify the translation errors at the next level. For example, there are indexes written for each letter or symbol picture, there is one for each combination of letters -- which for an alphabet of 98 characters -- you can imagine the variety of combinations. There are also indexes for sentence structure and one for semantic context. On top of these variables, there must be considerations given to the linearity of the language or its sequence.
"Furthermore, as I stated earlier, the text consisted of more than mere prose There was also musical notations and poetry. So we required, for each of the 23 segments of text, a translation that was capable of discerning all the nuance of the prose and also the poetry and music."


[ Note: The following section was inserted ]

[ Sarah: "Tell me a little bit about the translation process since you were involved in it?"

Dr. Neruda: "The translation is the key to the usefulness of the optical disc, and using a carefully sequenced set of experiments, conducted by ZEMI, we were able to access the disc's data files in five days."

Sarah: "How do you know that the translation is accurate?"

Dr. Neruda: "Within the disc, once it was accessed, were translations indexes that enabled their text to print out in perfect English, or about sixty other languages. It took us a two days to figure out how to access the disc, but once we did, we were able to access the 24 sections of text in the span of seventeen hours."
The most vexing of the translations, and the one in which we have the least confidence is the music." ]


Interview 2/Extract 3

Dr. Anderson: "Actually, it was a bit of a combination of the two. Their musical notations were very precise and they left digital samples of each of their instruments -- even vocals. So we simply translated their digital samples to a MIDI standard and produced our own version of their music. Of all the things that we've translated, the music was the easiest to produce, but also the one that we're not sure as to its accuracy."

Interview 2/Extract 4

Dr. Anderson: "The poems are expressive of a wide range of subjects. To most of us at the ACIO, they could have been written by any contemporary poet. There was really nothing that caused them to stand out as representing a culture 750 years in our future [billions of years older than our own]. Many of the same themes about spirituality, love, relationships, and death were evident in their poems as well. Most of the poetry has been translated because there isn't much text involved . . . at least compared to their philosophical and scientific papers. There're actually two poems for each chamber painting, so there's a total of 46 poems.

Interview 2/Extract 5

Anne: "Let's talk a little bit about the artifacts found in each chamber. The only one that I've really heard about was the one found in the 23rd [twenty-third] chamber, the optical disc. I know you've shown me some photos of the others, but could you describe them better with respect to how you analyzed them and what, if any, ideas you have as to their connection to the overall time capsule?"

Dr. Anderson: "The optical disc is the only artifact of the 23 [twenty-third] we found, that the AICO had successfully accessed, at least that I'm aware of. The other artifacts were all taken to the Labyrinth Group's research laboratory in Virginia immediately after they were discovered. These were never acknowledged to anyone below a 12x [security level twelve] clearance. There were rumors within the broader ACIO that there were technologies within the time capsule [Ancient Arrow site], but these never gained any serious consideration, and certainly not by the NSA.
"The technology artifacts were of the greatest curiosity to Fifteen because they represented the possible solutions to BST. And, as I mentioned earlier, Fifteen and most of the Labyrinths Group for that matter, felt that the WingMakers may represent the future of the Labyrinth Group [not allow the Labyrinth Group to deploy BST] trying to pass its interactive time travel technology to us working in the present. Hence, Fifteen logically considered these particular artifacts could represent a piece of the puzzle that had alluded him thus far. [the WingMakers as possible foes, instead of allies.]"

Anne: "But what I've seen don't [doesn't] look very advanced or based in high technology. They could pass for simple crystals or rocks . . . [--] or something organic. Why was the Labyrinth Group so convinced they held the keys to time travel [intrigued by them]?"

Interview 2/Extract 6

Anne: "What was it? Was it human?"

Dr. Anderson: "I couldn't see it clearly enough to tell you what it was, but now that I've had some interactions with the WingMakers I know it was them [I began to theorize that some of the chamber paintings may have purposes beyond just visual stimulation]. They were somehow using these paintings to appear in our time. It was shortly after that experience that I began to theorize that the paintings were actually portals that could enable time travel or something like it. [Our RV also had some experiences of sensing motion in the paintings, feeling as though she was being pulled out of her body.]"

Interview 2/Extract 7

Anne: "Okay, let's say it's not a hoax. Then tell me why are you so convinced it's a time capsule [defensive weapon]. It seems to me, that it might be more of a communication device . . . [--] or perhaps an educational tool of some kind. Why a time capsule [weapon]?"

Dr. Anderson: ["The text from the optical disc states this. And we had an RV session that corroborated it."] "Partly because it seemed that its creators wanted to share their culture with us. When we first began our analysis of the Ancient Arrow site, we felt that everything within the chambers was alien. We were initially convinced that this was an ET contact site, and we even considered the possibility that they had left these items behind to recover at a later date . . . "
Anne: "Sort of like an ET storage locker?"
Dr. Anderson: "Yes. However, some of the paintings depicted humans, and the landscapes were of earth -- specifically that region of the planet in northern New Mexico. So to us, it seemed less likely it was from an alien race. We also saw evidence that there were interactions with the precursor to the Navajo and perhaps Hopi Indian tribes, known today as the Anasazi Indians. And again, this was deduced from the paintings . . . which initially were the only real records that we could interpret from.
"As I recall we had a total of 47 possible scenarios that had been developed. Our most probable scenario -- ranked by our computer systems -- was that the Ancient Arrow site represented an ET race that had left behind the equivalent of a museum that recorded its interactions with the Anasazi Indians. Our second most probable scenario was that the site represented a time capsule left behind by the future version of the Labyrinth Group."
Anne: "That still seems odd to me . . . why did you think it was a future version of the Labyrinth Group?"
Dr. Anderson: "The Labyrinth Group uses as its identification symbol three concentric circles surrounding a sphere. There were ample depictions of this symbol within their paintings. Also, it seemed so peculiar to us that we had discovered this site in the manner that we did . . . it literally felt as though we were guided to this site. And remember, Fifteen was very confident in the Labyrinth Group's prospects at developing BST, and he knew that the future version of the Labyrinth Group would somehow make contact. It was just a matter of when and how."
Anne: "I know I must sound like the biggest doubter you've ever encountered before, but it still doesn't seem like a time capsule to me."
Dr. Anderson: "I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm only telling you that that's how it's officially classified within the Labyrinth Group. It could very well have multiple meanings and purposes. I for one, believe it's more than a time capsule, though I think it has that element to it."
Anne: "So what do you think its primary purpose is?"
Dr. Anderson: "If you take the WingMakers on face value, in other words, what do they say it is, it's a time capsule that will help facilitate the development of a global culture. They claim that somehow, when all seven of the time capsules are discovered, that they'll serve as a communication bridge between humans of today and their future selves."


[Note: The following section was inserted]

[ Dr. Neruda: "The text from the optical disc states this. And we had an RV session that corroborated it."

Sarah: "So, earth is this genetic library that the Animus want to use in order to re-create themselves as soul carriers, as you put it? And the Ancient Arrow site -- and its six companion sites -- is going to protect earth and all of us from these marauding aliens? How am I doing so far?"

Dr. Neruda: "I can't say that your specific conclusions are right or wrong. I can only tell you that the Animus are a real threat and that the WingMakers intend to protect their genetics."

Sarah: "Okay, then tell me, why would the Central Race, who lives trillions of light years away, would care about what happens to us?"

Dr. Neruda: "The Central Race is responsible for seeding and cultivating higher life forms throughout the universe, they're vitally interested in protecting their genetics from the Animus. Earth isn't the only genetic repository that they protect in this manner. Our RV sessions uncovered a database of planets throughout our superuniverse that was incalculably large."

Sarah: "So this is just standard operating procedure for this race--to install a defensive weapon on the planets they seed with life?"

Dr. Neruda: "I believe so."

Sarah: "I looked the word 'Animus' up in the dictionary this morning. It's a real word. How did a race whose most recent visit to earth was some three hundred million years ago become an entry in Webster's dictionary?"

Dr. Neruda: "Their name is known even by the WingMakers. They used the same word in their translation indexes. There are certain words that have been purposely seeded within our language by the WingMakers."

Sarah: "So now you're saying that WingMakers actually place words into our dictionaries?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. Remember when I told you that the WingMakers were culture bearers?"

Sarah: "Yes."

Dr. Neruda: "They have encoded the discovery of language, mathematics, music, and so forth into our genetic structures. As we evolve, certain forerunners of our species -- people like you and I -- activate a part of their DNA before the rest of us. These forerunners are able to retrieve this encoded information and share it with the species. In subsequent generations, this insight is transmitted, and pretty soon, the entire species encompasses this new information or skill.

Sarah: "So you're really saying that the word Animus was encoded into our sense of language, and someone invented the word, not realizing it was the name of this alien synthetic race?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, something like that." ]


Anne: "I [also] read the memo that Dr. Sauthers [[a colleague of Dr. Neruda]] wrote and I remember those statements too, but a global culture seems so unlikely . . . so impossible [about a global culture being an outcome of this technology from the WingMakers' sites]. And furthermore, how could these objects [from the Ancient Arrow site] be used to build a global culture? It seems a little naïve to me."

Interview 2/Extract 8

Anne: "I'd like to go back to the artifacts for a minute. The artifacts that are technology based, where are they right now?"

Dr. Anderson: "After the initial discovery of the Ancient Arrow site, all of the physical artifacts that could be removed from the site were carefully packed in shipping crates and shipped to the ACIO research lab in Virginia [Southern California], and are held by the Labyrinth Group in its own laboratory. That's where they still are, to the best of my knowledge."

Anne: "And only the homing device found outside the site and the optical disc have been, to some extent, understood?"

Dr. Anderson: "That's correct."

Anne: "You know, something you said earlier doesn't make much sense to me. If the WingMakers did represent a future version of humanity, and let's say they were trying to provide the entire recipe for BST through this time capsule, why wouldn't they simply beam themselves to your headquarters in Virginia and just cut to the chase. All of this other stuff . . . the paintings, the poetry, the music, the enigmatic artifacts, the philosophy, even the elaborate site itself, why not just give the blueprints to Fifteen and be done with it?"

Dr. Anderson: "It's actually a very good question, and I was wondering if you'd ask it. There are a few facts that we know of for certain. The WingMakers can time travel and they can interact physically with the time and space that they visit . . . that's obvious given what they did with the Ancient Arrow site. However, we don't know if they have all five elements of BST. Remember the element that pertains to intervention points?"

Anne: "Yes, that's the one that defines when to intervene at the point in time that is causal and has the least ripple effect on related, but separate events. Right?"

Dr. Anderson: "Your definition is missing only one thing, intervention points are co-dependent on both time and space. In other words, BST requires a precise fix on both the time and space coordinates of an event when it was in its conceptual stage -- or the stage that precedes physical manifestation of the event. The space component is usually a physical person or an event of nature that is focused in space. This is a very tricky technology, and I believe that the WingMakers have discovered interactive time travel, but still lack the technology to define intervention points with precision."

Anne: "Or perhaps they just like puzzles."

Dr. Anderson: "Or perhaps they just like puzzles . . . exactly."


Interview 2/Extract 9

[ The following section was inserted ]

[ Sarah: "But you said they had RV technology that can locate you. What about this?"

Dr. Neruda: "There's little doubt that they will try this, but it's not an exact science. An RV could see this room, but not have a clue as to how to find it. They might be able to key in on a particular object -- like that clock, for example -- but unless it was the only clock of its kind and they could trace its location, it wouldn't help them."

Sarah: "Is there anything I should be worried about, then?"

Dr. Neruda: "I think we need to move around a bit, and vary our meeting time and place. We should conduct the next interview in a new environment -- perhaps outdoors. Something generic without landmarks."

Sarah: "So they can't read my street sign and then look at my house's address -- I mean if they were doing an RV session right now?"

Dr. Neruda: "They would try, and it's possible they'd be successful, but not likely.

Sarah: "I suddenly got very nervous. You're not making me feel comfortable with this."

Dr. Neruda: "I can only be honest."

Sarah: "What would they do with me and my daughter if they found us?"

Dr. Neruda: "I think you could assume that they'd perform an MRP of the entire experience of meeting me."

Sarah: "They wouldn't kill us?"

Dr. Neruda: "I don't think so. Fifteen doesn't resort to violence unless it's absolutely necessary."

Sarah: "[Censored]. I wish I knew about this before I agreed to get my daughter and I involved. Just tell me one thing; do you know when they're doing an RV session? I mean, can you feel it or anything?"

Dr. Neruda: "I can sense it, but it's not something that's absolute."

Sarah: "Is there any defense against it?"

Dr. Neruda: "None."

Sarah: "So all we do is hope that their dang RV is incompetent?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'll only stay for short periods of time, and it'll be late at night when they're far less likely to perform an RV session. It'd be a good practice to vary our meeting place, as I suggested before. Other than that, I don't know what more we can do." ]


Anne: "I assume there's nothing the police or FBI could do to help?"

Dr. Anderson: "Nothing that I'm interested in."
Anne: "But what will you do to protect yourself?"

Dr. Anderson: "As you can imagine, Anne [Sarah] , there's certain information I can't share with you given the nature of these interviews. This is one instance I can't tell you more than I already have."

Anne: "Are you able to stay longer because I still have some more questions?"

Dr. Anderson: "I can stay s long as you like tonight."

Anne: "Good, I don' t think it'll take much longer.
"I'd like to go all the back to the WingMakers again. I'm not usually so scattered by the way. It's just that you're telling me things that get me going in a hundred directions at once and I can't keep myself focused. Sorry . . .
"Any rate, tell me more about your experiences with the WingMakers. You said earlier that you had visitations with them . . . right?"

Dr. Anderson: "Yes."

Anne: "So what were they like and what did they tell you?'

Dr. Anderson: "Well I suppose the best way to describe them is that they were like a lucid dream. The first time I actually interacted with them, I was taking a catnap at the lab and I suddenly woke up like someone had tapped me on the shoulder to awaken me, and when I turned around, there was no one there. I shrugged it off as a dream, and went back to my nap. The next thing I remembered I woke up and saw two luminous objects about the size of a human being and with the general appearance of a body . . . though they were too bright for me to look directly at them . . . so I wasn't really sure of their appearance initially.
"The light had a rhythmic pulsing quality to it and this pulsing seemed to entrain my own consciousness. It was like . . . like feeling something that was extremely powerful, but equally gentle at the same time... the dipole effect was very unusual. I had no fear of these objects emotionally, but mentally I felt at odds with my trust, as if I should feel fear. I must've remained semi-conscious of this experience for maybe ten seconds or so, and then I felt my mind become linked to the mind of these beings.
"They told me they were WingMakers and that they had entered my time to help me. They were only interested in unlocking their coded messages because they felt that their time capsule had fallen into good hands. They encoded their messages for two reasons: one, to ensure security of their time capsule and its contents, and two, to make certain that the ones who discover it will serve the WingMakers' agenda and not their own."

Anne: "So are you saying they felt that the Labyrinth Group was not going to apply their own agenda? If that's the case, I don't these WingMakers have much insight into the Labyrinth Group."

Dr. Anderson: "Except for one small issue. The WingMakers are the Labyrinth Group . . . only 750 years in the future."

Anne: "You're kidding. How could that be?"

Dr. Anderson: "That's almost exactly what I said at the time, only it was expressed with more amazement. We had considered the possibility as one of our early hypotheses, but it was never taken that seriously because we never had proof or evidence other than symbolic representations.
"Anyway, that was essentially what they wanted to communicate to me in that first conscious interaction. They, for whatever reason, had chosen me to be their liaison and were intent on helping me bring the contents of their time capsule to the public domain, and more specifically, to the Internet. That was the essence of their instruction.
"So when . . . "

Anne: "I still don't understand how they could represent the Labyrinth Group . . . If they have BST then why not hand it over like I said before? What's their concern?"

Dr. Anderson: "Like most things concerning BST, you have to unlearn all of your conventional precepts about how things work before you can understand the nature of BST.
"The WingMakers are the result of a whole new evolution of humankind. They're not time-bound. They're able to separate their physical and non-physical selves and, in the latter state, travel across vertical time and interact with it. I'm not sure that it's exactly the form of BST that Fifteen has in mind . . . it's seems more like bi-location except in different time periods instead of space. While in the foreign time they can re-materialize their physical bodies and interact with the physical environment if they choose. They can even bring objects with them and transfer these objects to the foreign time, as they did in the case of the Ancient Arrow site.
"But to give BST, or any aspect of it, to any individual, organization, or government, you first have to completely understand them and through that understanding, trust them. That takes time and observational experience. It also takes testing. And I think that's what the WingMakers are doing with their time capsules. They're testing the Labyrinth Group, and Fifteen in particular, to see what his true intentions are."

Anne: "I know this is going to sound like a tangled up question, but the WingMakers are 750 years ahead of us. Right?"

Dr. Anderson: "Yes."

Anne: "And in their future, they represent the Labyrinth Group. Right?"

Dr. Anderson: "Yes, that's right."

Anne: "And they don't trust the current membership and/or leadership of the Labyrinth Group. Right?"

Dr. Anderson: "Apparently not enough to simply hand over their technologies."

Anne: "So that's why they've placed their knowledge of BST inside seven time capsules and planted them inside or underneath rock formations or wherever. But I read in one of the ACIO memos or . . . maybe you told me . . . that the final time capsule wouldn't be discovered until the year 2023. And that's after the takeover bid by this hostile alien force. It doesn't make sense."

Dr. Anderson: "I understand your line of questioning. Unfortunately, my interactions with the WingMakers have been on different topics so far. Perhaps later I'll learn more about their plan as far as the 2018 elections and hostile takeovers are concerned. I've only had three interactions with them thus far, and all three have been brief encounters, and mostly one-way communication . . . they communicating messages to me."


Anne: "I'm feeling the need to bring this session to an end. My mind is quite literally filled to the brim. I think if you told me anything profound right now, it'd just go in one ear and out the other. Can we meet again on Wednesday [Tuesday] and perhaps pick-up on these sessions you've had with the WingMakers then [where we left off tonight]?"

Dr. Anderson: "Yes, that's fine with my schedule."

Anne: "Okay. Signing off for tonight.

End of Session


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:53 pm 
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That looks good Jarq.

I did something like this on my own in a notebook a few years back but never posted it.

Notice how it sort of morphed so that the parts taken out were incorporated into the book and the interviews tend to be the second part of the story.

Fascinating the abilities of the person or people who have been putting this material together and morphing it as it goes along.

Name changes, dates, and number names to numbers.

It's has always interested me, too.

Do you have a link to your PDFs?

LTF

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I will dance with it like moonlight on water.
I will hold it to myself in a longful embrace that beats perfection
in the hymn of the Songkeeper." One day


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:01 pm 
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This is a very interesting post. LTF did you see the post I made of Chris Locks email to me about James and his storytelling capabilities? Do you remember Chris?

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This is not a time of individual ascension and then dutiful service to teach. . . .
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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:11 pm 
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No, I do not remember it. Would you make a link to it here?

I'm on Chris's email list about his premonitions and such. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:46 pm 
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Hi! Sorry! I am in and out. I'll look. Chris seems to me to be a reliable sourcefor information.

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Oona wrote:
Hi! Sorry! I am in and out. I'll look. Chris seems to me to be a reliable sourcefor information.



here it is.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1289&p=38725&hilit=+Chris+lock#p38725

11/28/07
Mrs XXX <xxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Chris,

It's been a long time since I've written to you. I want to thank you for your kindness over the years. I would also like to ask you if you truly have confirmation knowledge of James and the wingmakers site? I have some conflicting heart feelings about it.

Would appreciate feedback.

Love All Ways
Be In Joy


Oona


Lock Chris <gbcyd@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Oona (or should I call you Mrs XXX?),

Depends what you mean exactly by "confirmation knowledge of James and the wingmakers site". I've never met James personally. I am convinced he exists. Mark forwarded me a large print of Hakomi 14 from James in appreciation of my work. Of course, someone could always say that just came from Mark, which it did; but I believe it was at James request. The wingmakers website is a form of mythology, as James stated; not classical mythology, but in the sense that it is not strictly true in its details. It is, like many myths, a story with a truth held behind it. I am convinced there is a lot of truth behind it, especially in the cosmology; and I find, myself, the art to be the closest representation of this.

It is important to remember that mythologies, and this includes the WMM is expressed according to the personal leanings of their creators. These can be so diverse as to appear contrary at times. It is one of the difficulties of attempting to represent the indefinable in definitive terms and means. One example of this for me is the WM representation of "soul". In the art and music it often is personified, whereas I find through my own transformation that it is better for me not to think of it in those terms, as it does not have personality like a person. This is even hinted at in the Lyricus material and James answers to Qs which are more literal than the WMM which, as James said, is the initial "calling card" of the WingMakers.
The WMM and its mythology IMO was created to resonate with certain people, and so was created the way it was/is. Most people will associate with a "soul" more human in representation e.g. than one that is reduced to frequencies alone, however magnificent those frequencies. Then again to many, all things in existence are somewhat human as the human is the highest creation until one enters pure spirit.

As for the artwork: I know this is truly representative of the wingmakers philosophy for want of better words, though for me in many ways they say more than the philosophies. They are incredible works impregnated with remarkable mythological/spiritual meaning and representation. I have decoded CH 18 painting in full now but am too busy writing my book to get to publishing that yet. I do really want to get to it though, because like all the paintings its message is really remarkable for a painting, as, I'm lead to presume, are all these paintings.

I know for a fact Mark does not understand the paintings as well as I do, which means he is definitely NOT the creator of these works. I once convinced Mark that a portion of one of the paintings was slightly wrong and he changed it for me, assuming something had gone wrong somewhere. Later, however, I realized that it was me that was wrong and that the original painting was right as it was which visually didn't make sense but was descriptively correct and so an example of artistic license. When I explained this to Mark in detail he changed the picture back to the original. If he had been the creator there is no way he would have just changed it from the original because of what I said; he would have known I was wrong. No artist would change their original artwork into something that is knowingly wrong. Besides I know Mark gained a great deal of understanding from what I had to say about the paintings -- and he would be happy for me to try Ch 12 because it's one of his "all time favorites". I know from my many communiqués with mark that he is mystified as well as enthralled by these paintings too.

IMO they are James versions of original works existing in another time and space. I think he worked from them and adapted them just a little to be more relevant to us on earth rather than elsewhere though they also serve as generic representations -- universal truths throughout the galaxies. But that is just my opinion. Are they on the walls of a canyon hidden in Chaco? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe James copied from them. Maybe not. It really doesn't matter for the purposes of the mythology, which is to bring mankind closer to the soul or spirit and even trigger transformation. That communion is the central purpose. Does it matter how one describes the indescribable road that takes one there?

I know the paintings can produce amazing transformation at even low quality, because they did this to me -- in fact just one of them. IMO they work because they are created -- at home base so to speak -- by enlightened beings experiencing these things. IMO, never before have there been artworks like these in the history of the planet. If the words are "bugged by God" these paintings are flashes of Source's creativity captured in visual format. They are unique, historic and seminal.

IMO one branch of the WingMakers are also known as the semi-physical, semi-spiritual beings of the High Council of Andromeda, but WingMakers are not limited to them of course.

I have been in communication with the lady who has sole distribution rights for the WingMakers movie. I believe her to be of integrity and honest. The movie is progressing slowly though and I've heard nothing since James was writing the script. I must ask to see if any further progress has been made. I think there are many things James wants to do and that he feels are important if not urgent to do for mankind's sake. This may have put the WMM on the website on hold. Or has it just evolved further into Lyricus and/or Event Temples? The astonishing truths within the WMM remain, however.

My book too I feel I have to publish to help, assist or encourage mankind onto a better path in the near future; and I feel this is more important (just) than writing up ch 18 right now. Ch 18 will follow after the book, which is not on the WMM per se. This is the reason there has been nothing new coming from me regarding the paintings recently, though I still plan to write on at least two other paintings after Ch 18. I've been preparing the book and publishing a couple of papers that are now evolving into parts of the book.

A main problem with the WMM is that people have taken it too literally, me too originally. It was never intended to be taken that way, but James is such a good writer or story teller that, as he said, people get "drawn into a story". That's a lot more effective for humanity, however, than the messenger getting killed for telling the truth as it is, or as little of it as he could before being terminated.

I don't know if these comments help, Oona. It's ultimately your decision and feeling that is important to you. Perhaps if you could share your "conflicting feelings" more precisely I might be able to focus on a better answer for you.

Warm regards,

Chris


Mrs XXX <xxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com> wrote:Thank you so deeply from my heart.

You have spoken almost word for word what I would have written if I were as good a writer as YOU. Your logic is very sound.

I wish it were ok for me to post what you just wrote to me at the current Wingmakers UK forum. You are very well respected. I think there is a need for this.

Love All Ways
Be In Joy

Oona

In the next email Chris told me to post wherever this might be of help.

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Every day to those who give me the opportunity to exercise Spiritual Maturity, I am grateful and give thanks

This is not a time of individual ascension and then dutiful service to teach. . . .
~J~


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:32 am 
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Jarcq, I appreciate you effort...and what you have shared...but what is the point?



a writer, like a chef, often changes the menu...edits ... and that is his right (artistic license). The interviews and the book are not the Wingmaker's materials...despite what some believe...they are the "appetizers" for the main course. :wink:

you guys are gonna have a hay baby when the movie comes out and it is nothing like the book.. HA HA.
I imagine there will be more than one "trailer" too.

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Starduster . . . the point my dear, is honesty, to ourselves and to what is . . .

I find it bordering on irresponsible to have a WingMakers forum that does not discuss or is very leery of discussing the various forms of morphing that the mythology is undergoing. There is nothing at all wrong with that . . . James is not a savior to be worshipped and protected . . . 'he' I believe, is a Teacher who chose to be of service to humanity and a Guide as we slowly but surely 'morph' our own way into 'sovereign expressions of Source Reality.'

LTF, I am in the process of finding a place where someone can host the PDFs online. As soon as I have an address I will paste it here. In the meantime, if you want them via e-mail, send me a note with your address and I will send them along.

Oona, thanks for your contribution.


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:28 pm 
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yes...I agree...James is just another "artist"... and if he wants to paint over a completed canvas...he can.

why you do not allow him the same privileges as any other who presents their work on a web site...that is constantly being upgraded to appeal to a more sophisticated or global audience... is revealing a suspicious nature. that is unwilling to adjust to changes...and to suggest that there is something other than "artistic license" going on with his "work" IMO is ridiculous.

like it or lump it...that is MY personal perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Jarcq said: Perhaps our process of enganging with all aspects of the WingMakers mythology (including what appear to be unpalatable aspects) is part and parcel of our own transformation and spiritual unfoldment.


Fascinating!

The changes could be a metaphor of the transformation/mastership.

Transforming happens in ways we cannot always imagine!

LTF

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Interesting I remember the original interviews and waiting in such excitement for each of the following ones to be published on the net.What you've shown here is pretty accurate. The First Source disc also changed over time and originally its content was much more extensive than the website and you especially noticed it in the AA story. That you have gone to such lengthes to do what you did is applaudable. I remember on the old forum there were a number of us who decided to check out the meaning of various symbols interspersed throughout the art work and it was a demanding process for all the cross checking and searching over the net and then to get together with others and come up with a meaning. Each of us triggered something in the other that lead to other discoveries and it was a lovely collaboration. AmericaMostWanted who was Witchearth 3 at the time even built a website for all we discovered. My point with this is that to strive to understand these materials in the least puts you on the road for such wonderful discovery and most of it you will find pertains to the mystery that you are to yourself. Thanks for this. Just another way of looking at it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:21 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-QzEq1A ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN1mJa6UMVA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7q9aSpV_bA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6r3G9z0jZ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpJVsI6qf5E

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:13 pm 
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hey starduster, are you an "artist"...of any sort...to speak about...?
re:your opinions/comments
Quote:
a writer, like a chef, often changes the menu...edits ... and that is his right (artistic license).

...and
Quote:
James is just another "artist"... and if he wants to paint over a completed canvas...he can.

why you do not allow him the same privileges as any other who presents their work on a web site...that is constantly being upgraded to appeal to a more sophisticated or global audience... is revealing a suspicious nature. that is unwilling to adjust to changes...and to suggest that there is something other than "artistic license" going on with his "work" IMO is ridiculous.

like it or lump it...that is MY personal perspective.


in my (humble) experience..."true" - "artists" do not appeal/cater to "global" audience (unless they've been bought)...it "seems" rather anti-thesis...yes...?
considering tha works they do dew..."new ideas"!!! :o

lol...even chris notices...
Quote:
Mark does not understand the paintings as well as I do, which means he is definitely NOT the creator of these works. I once convinced Mark that a portion of one of the paintings was slightly wrong and he changed it for me, assuming something had gone wrong somewhere. Later, however, I realized that it was me that was wrong and that the original painting was right as it was which visually didn't make sense but was descriptively correct and so an example of artistic license. When I explained this to Mark in detail he changed the picture back to the original. If he had been the creator there is no way he would have just changed it from the original because of what I said; he would have known I was wrong. No artist would change their original artwork into something that is knowingly wrong.


y'know...to "alter"...knots tha "original"...intension of...jmPOV

*O*...an' p.s.t...tha "original" (canvas) site were left kinda "open" hay...as in...UNCOMPLETED...yes...?
hmmm...more "sophisticated audience"...!?LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:21 pm 
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btb..."artistic licence" does not mean...changing in tha middle of...er, willynilly
it means...doing watt is "right"...in *heART*...expresSING :D

they do NOT change thA "pulse" in miD-REAM...si...? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:59 pm 
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Artistic license (also known as dramatic license, poetic license, narrative license, licentia poetica, or simply license) is a colloquial term used to denote the distortion or complete ignorance of fact, or the changing of an established work that an artist may undertake in the name of art


Artistic license often provokes controversy by offending those who resent the reinterpretation of cherished beliefs or previous works. Artists often respond to these criticisms by pointing out that their work was not intended to be a verbatim portrayal of something previous and should be judged only on artistic merit. Artistic license is a generally accepted practice, particularly when the result is widely acclaimed. William Shakespeare's historical plays, for example, are gross distortions of historical fact but are nevertheless lauded as outstanding literary works.

Writers adapting a work for another medium (e.g., a film screenplay from a book) often make significant changes, additions to, or omissions from the original plot in the book, on the grounds that these changes were necessary to make a good film. These changes are sometimes to the dismay of fans of the original work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetic_license



who are we to determine what James thinks is "right" or how authentically he is expressing his "heart"...eh?
bottom line is...it is his work to do what he will with...honestly I think it was a great improvement and appreciated it more than the first version. :D

get over it already...this may well be, the fiftieth topic dealing with this subject...its not the bible for god's sake

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:42 pm 
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starduster...again, i ask...are you an "expressionist" of your *heART* in "art" forms...?...a "scene-test" or "scientist", yourself, to be "commenting" on, as if you know what *heARTs* are...?

have ya ever noticed that those that do/would "edit" (for screen-play) purposes...are NOT THA "ORIGINAL" artist's...an' say they DO IT for tha "acCLAIM" of "public"...lol...ahhh, to be "idolized"...be "altered"...LOL

like it or lumpit...Hmmm...?LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:28 pm 
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note:
Quote:
...visually didn't make sense but was descriptively correct and so an example of artistic license.


artistic (*LOVES*...*freeLAY*...wattEVErrr course th'HAY isON) licenced/accepted ass...does not "cater" to tha "mass-bReign-set"...

un-less they're BOughT...

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:29 pm 
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yes...I am an expressionist of my heart in "art" forms...and I edit all the time... :D

wondering why you are making a mountain out of a mole hill...have you never "painted" over your art...or added something later? of course you have...everyone does from time to time...no big deal.

upgrading to reach a larger audience is elementary "marketing"... it doesn't mean some one has "sold out" when they make improvements...lighten up.


like I said...I appreciate the constant changes...and the addition of upgraded materials/technology etc etc etc...it is a healthy sign of growth. :wink:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-of-the-art

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:27 pm 
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starduster wrote:
yes...I am an expressionist of my heart in "art" forms...and I edit all the time... :D


yes, eye notice that...LOL

Quote:
wondering why you are making a mountain out of a mole hill...


lol...artists' are re:clues...if it becomes "mountainous" to your view, well...that's your view...yes! :D

Quote:
have you never "painted" over your art


nope!

Quote:
...or added something later?


nope!

Quote:
of course you have...everyone does from time to time...no big deal.


ok...i admit...two pieces...from tha past...one, were a doG i were "comissioned" to perForm exact rendition...tha neighbor visited (w/her twins) one were so engrossed in details/almost done...she touched tha ear w/bloody finger...ooops...lol...i wound up gifting it to her (tha child) an' re:did...exactly

anUther time...i "self" destroyed my own (paint eye placed on windows)...removed it from existance (note: did not erase IN*heART*)...by my own hand though...not another's orders...

Quote:
upgrading to reach a larger audience is elementary "marketing"... it doesn't mean some one has "sold out" when they make improvements...lighten up.


exactly...elementary...101..."MARKETING" tha *heART* of...lol...er, at least, "trying to"...lolol
"super-fiscial" (dross)...adVeerTizements...(k)not FROM tha *SOURCE* of...


Quote:
like I said...I appreciate the constant changes...and the addition of upgraded materials/technology etc etc etc...it is a healthy sign of growth. :wink:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-of-the-art


yeahyeah...i understand...sew many *sparklies* haYA, keeps ya buis.si...! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:33 pm 
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"question"...does *TRUE*HEART* >>>NEED<<< to be "marketted"...?
CAN *TRUE*HEART* be "marketted"...?

if so...why?

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:19 am 
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Marketing to the head/mind first then to the heart later?

LTF


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:05 am 
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ya ya...thas watt eye would've "thought" too...buttah, *feeling* is...ain't it tha "heart"...imPULSE...that "gets"...effected/affects, *first*...via "stimulUS"...er, "inner senses"..."pulsing"...fore..."radiant", as is...?...amygdala, instantly responsive...?
pause, to decide is body/brain...?
hmmm...

i know from my own experiencing...it were my *feelings* that were affected first...then my brain tries to sort through, swamped...lol...almost disengaged

ok...still sortin...

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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:29 am 
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The spiraling thing maybe? Is there really any explaining, really?

LTF


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 Post subject: Re: Changes to WingMakers Interviews One and Two
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:45 am 
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whatever....floats yer boat :D

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