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 Post subject: The Psychedelic Experience
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:14 pm 
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Hello Everyone,

I thought I'd start off by offering a new thread, or least a thread I haven't yet seen here. I'm curious about your perceptions and/or experiences of the [b]Psychedelic Realm[/b], particularly in relation to the WM Cosmology.

I'll start the discussion with my own offering.

My perception of Psychedelics is that they may be used as powerful catalysts for the rapid expansion of consciousness. I see them not simply as the red pill (or was it the blue?). I see them as more than the Alien giving the Mind permission to go for a frolick in the Hypercontinuum, as Mckenna sometimes called it.

Truly, I perceive that Psychedelics may be used as activators, or least as accessors to information which activates and transforms, and reorganizes consciousness. In this way, they may even be seen as Tributary Zones, or doorways to TZ's. Much of this, I believe, depends on the [b]intent, skill, and consciousness[/b] of the Traveler.

My own experiences have confirmed that hypothesis, that Psychedelics may be used as catalysts to a rapid expansion in consciousness. And why not? By consciously using the catalyst to enter that "other" dimension of perception, we are accessing information that we might not otherwise be accessing, or at the very least, we are synthesizing that information in ways we usually do not. Wasn't it mentioned somewhere in the WMM that we are constantly synthesizing more information than we are consciously aware of? And isn't it true that a Tributary Zone brings that information to our attention in [i]some[/i] way?

I'd like to hear from you on this, and go from there... :P

[Edited on 3-1-07u07 by Citizen]


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:08 am 
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Also psychedelics rearrange the receptor sites in the neurons of the brain so that signals become hooked up differently than in normal functioning and produce what you think is an experience of other realms. You are experiencing this realm still , only from a distorted perspective from your drug inducement. No where in the WMM are drugs avocated as a means to experience tributary zones. Meditation, music, dance, some visual exercises etc. are suggested for those willing to make some kind of effort for such experience. And these for some can produce rapid mind expansion without tampering with the delicate intricate workings of the brain. By the way, I also live in Edmonton.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:12 am 
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Read the Philosophy papers for an understanding of what I am saying. There is a meditation DVD you can purchase quite inexpensively to give you a feel and idea of what a tributary zone is like.:P

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:55 am 
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[quote][i]Originally posted by Shayalana[/i]
Also psychedelics rearrange the receptor sites in the neurons of the brain so that signals become hooked up differently than in normal functioning and produce what you think is an experience of other realms. You are experiencing this realm still , only from a distorted perspective from your drug inducement. No where in the WMM are drugs avocated as a means to experience tributary zones. Meditation, music, dance, some visual exercises etc. are suggested for those willing to make some kind of effort for such experience. And these for some can produce rapid mind expansion without tampering with the delicate intricate workings of the brain. By the way, I also live in Edmonton. [/quote]


First of all, I speak for myself. I ask you to do the same when speaking with me. Do not include me in your assumptions or your experiences, please. Secondly, I'm not suggesting Psychedelics actually are Tributary Zones. It's an analogy. That doesn't mean they aren't, and it doesn't mean that they don't give us access to unique information. Thirdly, there are many types of Psychedelics, all producing various types of effects, some similar in nature, some vastly different. To broadly categorize them is foolish, in my judgement.

I invite you to take your claim that Psychedelics are merely producing "a distorted perspective from your drug inducement" to the Shamans all over the Earth who are part of traditions many thousands of years old. Who is to say that Psychedelics are not another tool given to us by the Central Race or some other intelligence? To discount them as "merely drugs," would be unfortunate, and naive, in my judgement.

Next, I want you to know that I did not start this thread as a way of advocating anything. It is a discussion of possibilities. I like to create possibilities rather than close myself to them. And finally, this: Yes, I agree, the WMM are incredibly powerful, and I use them for the purposes suggested. But just because they do not advocate something does not mean that the "something" is not powerful and useful in its own right.

In any case, I believe it is in Philosophy 1, there is mention of creating self-transformation, of entering timelessness in order to view the "lifestream" objectively. From what I remember this is discussed as a method of moving toward the Sovereign Integral. I'm not quoting here but paraphrasing, and the idea is that the means we may use for transformation are as broad as the intention is narrow. That is key, I believe: Intention. I invite you to ponder on Psychedelics from that perspective. There are millions of things not specifically advocated there, but they may fall under that broad set of techniques for transformation with the same narrow intention.

So a fellow Edmontonian? That's cool. I'm actually in California at the moment but I'll be back in about two weeks. Might be interesting to have a face to face discussion with someone who is familiar with this material. I've gotten the feeling that there aren't many of us. The more I go abroad the more I enjoy and appreciate Edmonton. It's a unique and beautiful city that I really love.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:52 am 
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You did not mention shaman/woman in your first post so ease up on me for my response. There have been others who have attempted to introduce drugs as a means for enlightenment before on this forum and there wasn't enough interest generated to keep it going. I have no idea about your experiences and have not included what very little I know about you in my above post. I only stated what I have learned over the years about the physical effects of drugs on the brain and can give you the research material to check out if you like. If you have any real understanding about these materials , especially in what it means to "go within" or visting your Chamber of Self, what would you need drugs for? I think you are really stretching it when you say what has not been avocated as a tool for transformation could be , based on your premise of possibilities. They are your idea of possibilities . Just because something is NOT mentioned doesn't mean it IS a possibility. Maybe it isn't mentioned because it isn't a possibility. By the way, welcome to the forum:P

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:54 pm 
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Citizen,
I can't give you personal experience with psycadelics if you are referring to substances used to alter your brain chemistry. I have known a lot of people who used them (psylisibin mushrooms, acid, etc.), and none of them had any insights to share thought they thought they had experienced something spiritual while 'tripping'. I think in 'altered' state the great insights they thought they had were just a bunch of chemicals firing in their brains.

My psychedelic experiences have all been through meditation and meditation on the Wingmakers DVD was very interesting, but not insightful. It reminded me of the tape I saw made in the 70's about the Keys of Enoch.

Linda Goodman said once that "if teenagers were taught to meditate before they were introduced to drugs, they would not want the drugs". I think that is an accurate statement.

The shamans used substances like cocoa, cacao, mushrooms, some kinds of cactus flowers but they did not use them to excess and they did not use them habitually.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:42 pm 
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if it was a permanent "alteration" that affected something other than the five senses...it might be worthy of our focus, but it, like a ride on a rolly coaster is just a temporary distraction...eventually every thing returns to "normal" eh?

As Resonance says, the Shamen use it "medicinally" in a sacred manor and often in a santified place... to "cure" a specific "ill".

In America we use psychodelics for "thrills"... fun and games and attach no significance to them...the medical (scientific) and religious communities have rejected their value.

Having experienced them all...I would not trade the experience for any other...but it was just another (altered) level of awareness of this "reality".

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Interesting, all. To Shayalana: Why would we need [i]anything[/i] for "enlightenment," whether it is a WingMakers DVD or a mushroom growing in the back yard? My point here is not to tell everyone, "Hey, start using Pyschedelics! They'll free your mind!" My point here is that everything is a tool and can be used that way. I don't think it's a stretch at all. It is whatever you, or I, choose to make it. That is the whole point, in my interpretation, of these materials. It sets us free of all the bounds we have placed on ourselves and on everything in life. Just think about the word Sovereign, in that context. As a Sovereign being I can make anything into a means of "enlightenment." I can make drinking a glass of water into a means of accessing my "Chamber of Self" as you call it. There are so many different definitions and experiences. For me it is not about comparing them or holding one higher than another. For me it is about being comprehensive and understanding that it's [b]all[/b] good and useful to me, as I see fit. I don't need to see any research material because it is irrelevant to what my personal experience is. Whether it is "just chemicals firing in the brain" or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is, what do I take from the experience? What do I learn about my self and about the amazing world around me? This is the point! And please, don't mistake my passion for anger. I hold nothing against you for challenging me; in fact I appreciate it. If nobody did, this would probably be a pretty boring thread, no?

And to starduster, one comment or idea from what you said: Perhaps the Psychedelic experience itself is not permanent, but what of the lessons learned? What of the things, ideas, awarenesses, and realizations we take [b]from[/b] the experience back into our "normal" lives? And anyway, is anything really permanent at all? Even once we have all reached the status of the Sovereign Integral, is it possible there will come a "time" when we decide to "start all over again"? Isn't this what science speculates, that the universe will at some point shrink back in on itself in a "big crunch"? And there we will be, proto-humans just seeded, or proto-life carriers of another form making our way along the evolutionary scale once again, munching on mushrooms or absorbing energetic catalyst filaments, gazing at the stars or some other cosmic grid, doing whatever we can, whatever works for us, to evolve and transform.

PS> It is true what you say of Shamans, and how they use Psychedelics in a sacred manner. I believe that if they are to be used this is how it should be done. As with anything. As with walking down the street. As with drinking a glass of water. As with making love. All is sacred. Unfortunately, you are right in that, in Western culture, these tools are mostly seen as forms of escape and are not treated sacredly.

[Edited on 4-1-07u07 by Citizen]

[Edited on 4-1-07u07 by Citizen]


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:32 pm 
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Hi Citizen,

Welcome to the forum.

You've picked a great topic if for no other reason than it's controversial and polarizing and gives us a chance to watch ourselves interacting and communicating inside these energies.

I am one of those who many years ago did my share of experimenting with substances however unlike those around me at the time, I stayed with the "soft" stuff while those around me went to "the ends of the earth". My "justification" at the time was that I didn't want to screw up my genes and then pass them on to my potential kids. Really.

I am also an anarchist/libertarian at heart so even though I no longer even "dabble" I am adamant in my belief that it is a personal choice and that any form of legislated or "influenced" morality is undesireable, at least to me (in my UE). This also includes any personal choice that does not "infringe" on others. I know that there is another argument here in the sense of everything is our own creation anyway so it's impossible to "infringe" on others but that is outside this thread. For me if I "believe" it infringes on others (rightly or wrongly), I don't do it ... at least most of the time <laughing>.

There is one thing you said that struck me though and that is ...

[b]"As a Sovereign being I can make anything into a means of "enlightenment." I can make drinking a glass of water into a means of accessing my "Chamber of Self" as you call it."[/b]

In theory that is absolutely true. However in practice, I doubt that it is, at least for most of us, and certainly not me. Can any of us turn a glass of water into an "enlightenment experience" that is of the same "quality" and "power" as a hallucinogenic? If not, why not? If someone claims that they really are the "same" are they being authentic or only speaking in principle? Does the "how" of an experience change it in meaningful ways underneath the experience itself? Are these "meaningful ways" individual and based on the individual's beliefs? Are they connected to the genetic mind?

Perhaps the answers (for me at least) are inside these questions. Perhaps all things really are equal and it is our "job" to experience them as equal rather than just "express their equality" in words. This would mean actually turning the glass of water into a hallucinogen rather than using the "drug" to do what we already believe it can (where's the "challenge" in that). Perhaps the value in having used these substances (the few I have) is to give me a reference point so I can tell whether the "water" is doing the same thing. Once I know what it can do, can I learn to really use "anything" to do the same thing? I truly believe there is no right or wrong here although in subtle or not so subtle ways (desireable or not desireable etc), this is the frame that it usually ends up being discussed in. The problem (at least for me) is when desireable or not desireable is "implied" or even "stated" to apply to more than the individual.

Having said all that, I must admit to having done some research recently into "entheogenic" substances, particularly salvia divinorum or just plain salvia (not using but reading about). It has led to a kind of divide inside my "well established" belief system concerning "substances". Part of the reason for this is its unique qualities and "knowing" that I have not experienced anything like this. Of course all the typical arguments exist and are "making themselves heard" inside me. Some louder, some softer.

1. You should be able to do this with a glass of water or meditation or anything else arguments
2. It's "wrong" somehow
3. It's less spiritual (or valuable, or real or something) than doing it "naturally"?
4. Will it have some subtle effect on me that somehow causes me harm underneath its obvious safety?
5. Variations of the above

Which of course conflict with

1. I wonder what it's like
2. Why is it so apparently different?
3. It's being used with amazing and seemingly lasting effects (effects that do not require ongoing use)
4. What harm can it really do?
5. Variations of the above

Both sides of these "arguments" are "inside" me whether I like them or not or whether I deny them or not or "justify them away" or not. The interesting thing is I really don't really have a frame of reference here like I would with other substances. Authenticity to me requires acknowledging all the voices inside me regardless of any "judgements" I may have about these voices. Perhaps I just need to talk with the consciousness of Salvia and ask it directly if it wants to dance with me.

No answers here, especially not for me, except to say that being "Sovereign" in my view requires me to make a personal decision without the influence of any "outside" voices of morality, judgement, or even "guidance". The first step is to recognize the "influences" before I make the "decisions".

Thanks for choosing something so interesting on several layers to talk about.

Phoenix


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:12 pm 
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besides, drugs are passe' this is the "new" alteration - [b]Cybershaman[/b]

What are Cybershaman and The Miracle 6 ? and What are they Good for ?

The Miracle 6 and Cybershaman are causal manifestation interfaces based on focused intent and Universal Law. At the core they are driven by the combined principles of Non Linear Resonance, Quantum Computing, and Sacred Geometry, coupled with Focused intent.. Reality as we perceive it, is the manifestation of Coherence out of Chaos. What we think can, and often does become reality. Even our wildest fantasies are taking place "somewhere".
Dr. Len Horowitz and others have called it a "Prayer Assistant" others have called it "The Word Processor of the Gods", some have gone as far as to call it an electronic Voodoo Doll.

I call it a Causal Manifestation System. I attach no religious significance to it. I do see it as a vehicle to becoming one with the creative force in the universe. Many researchers have made major contributions in the area of Psionics over the last 600 years. Mesmer, Reich, Tesla, Cosimano, Tansley, Copen, Hyeronimous, are just a few of the most prominent names. Each added wisdom to the pot and began to stir it. It is our job to finish the meal and serve it up to humanity.

Spiritual growth is happening at an accelerated rate of speed and global distribution today. More people than ever are seeking for answers due to the collective subconscious knowing that a major shift is about to occur. Most of us have no clue as to what is looming in the near future, some of us have had glimpses. It is essential that we apply ourselves with due diligence to the task at hand. That task is the survival of our species as spiritual beings not as clothed animals just one jump ahead of our simian ancestry. We have "Free Will" and the ability to learn by experience and conjecture. The creative abilities of the most limited human being are truly awesome. We are the result of what we as a species have created in the last few thousand years. We are of the flesh and of the spirit. This is a wondrous gift from our creator. We can live in 3 Dimensional reality, while we exist in a much larger arena of creative manifestation.

We have the need to raise our vibratory level in order to grow and cope with shifts in reality that are starting to become pervasive in our life experience. John Lennon said "All you need is Love", He was right, Love is all you need. We have for the most part forgotten how to love. We have forgotten how to love others, ourselves, and most important our creator. Religions have twisted God's message of Love into a language of domination by fear and Dogma. All our lives we are reminded that at the moment of our death, we will be judged, and will reap what we sow. This is not entirely false, but it is far from the truth. When we leave our "shell" and become Spirit, we contemplate our actions during our brief stay on this dimension, and formulate a plan of action to improve our performance. This is not undertaken as a measure to avoid punishment or "The Wrath of God", there is no such thing. There is no final judgment only contemplation. There is no punishment, perhaps a spiritual crisis.

Balance and Harmony are the same thing. If we attain the proper balance between the physical and the Spiritual, we become enlightened. Enlightenment brings with it many rewards. There is no more fear, no secrets, and no guilt. Only love. Easy to say but difficult to accomplish. We have been brainwashed by our respective cultures to fear that which we do not understand. If you think about how little we individually understand it's easy to see why our world is in the state it is in right now. We are on the verge of ecological and biological destruction due to our engrained lack of discernment concerning the things that are really essential to harmonious existence. We kill, we lie, we steal, we cheat. We judge others while we indulge ourselves in the very same behavior we despise in others. We kill in the name of God, and we tell little white lies in the name of Political Correctness. There is no excuse for killing, and there is no such thing as a little lie. We must wake up, take responsibility for our actions and go forward accordingly.

The Laws of the Universe that we can understand are obvious and do not require "official interpretations"t ofery individual experiences God and reality differently from everyone else. Religions are not what they claim to be. The least offensive description of organized religions is that they are mutual admiration societies, or mutual support groups for those of us that choose to keep our eyes closed. The other extreme is much more insidious. Religions are the Opium of the Masses, a way to keep the average person in the dark and malleable to whatever agenda those in power at any given time are involved in bringing to fruition. History is full of examples of this. The Crusades, The World Wars, The Roman Empire, The Judeo-Christian tradition, The Muslims, The Wiccans, The Satanists, all have perfectly defensible theories and purport to have documented proof of their particular collective misconception.

We strive to get there all our lives. We live, we love, we err, we rationalize, and we try to find a warm and cozy mental oasis that anchors our sanity as we watch the world around us crumble. We have been made weak by those who usurp our will, and design our spiritual development according to their financial and territorial concerns. We have been sold a bill of goods, and we have bought it. Salvation Inc. does not have the answers to your questions, nor are they interested in how you fare now, or in the hereafter. We have not been told the truth, we have been manipulated, and worst of all, we are the staunchest supporters of our oppressors. There is no hard and fast answer to Life, The Universe and Everything. Life, is what you make it. Your choices determine your circumstances in explainable, yet non linear chains of events. We are seekers and as such we will always find a new horizon to move toward. To progress, we must shed our cultural differences and embrace each other as true brothers in spirit and purpose. I believe we can and must accomplish this eventually, but it will require "all" of us to re-assess our core belief systems and shake off the misconceptions in preparation to accept the truth.

We go about this in different ways according to what we have experienced and what we have been conditioned to. We shun the poor and the less fortunate and we take refuge in material possessions and nonsensical rationalizations. You and I have heard them all.

Here are a few examples of things we tell ourselves over and over:

Cleanliness is next to Godliness.
God helps those that help themselves.
An eye for an eye.
Love and Hate go hand in hand.
Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
Do onto others before they do onto you.
The sage ruins nothing by doing nothing.
I don't to want pay the Karmic debt for that.
I always tell the truth.
I have been saved by my devotion to Jesus.
What goes around comes around.
There is no light without darkness.
There is light at the end of the tunnel.
An act of contrition at the time of death erases all your sins.
Confession bring about peace of mind.
God will punish you according to your actions.
Bad things don't happen to good people.
I would never do that, no matter what.
Beauty is only skin deep. Might is right. Right is might.
The meek shall inherit the Earth.
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us.
Lead us not into temptation Deliver us from evil.

ALL of these are nonsense. They are basic assertions that help us to cope with topical issues. The truth as a concept is not something we have the organic hardware to comprehend. What is important is that we keep our perspective from being spoiled by the truth of the week, fed to us by the latest prophet, of the latest Deity.

There is no value in half truths. We must keep our divine origin at the core of our existence and follow the path we lay out for ourselves in between lives. The idea that death is a terrible thing to be feared is an explanation that seems to make sense. The opposite is to the truth about death. Our death is a new beginning and an opportunity to grow. A chance to move to higher vibrational harmony with our source by exercising our free will. Our creator does not reveal wisdom to individuals by means of tablets and parables divulged while in seclusion from their peers or charges. God speaks to us all, every day, in a constant stream of miraculous occurrences that for the most part we disregard as coincidence and commonality. Everyone you meet, see, hear, read has a message from God specifically for you. Our every action is a communion with God. There are no coincidences, no accidents, no mistakes, just choices in the exercising of free will. We are exactly where we need to be at all times regardless of how it may appear at the time to ourselves or anyone else.

Just a few generations ago, the paragraphs above would have resulted in a death by fire for me and the title of "Heretic" in the eyes of The Church, and all the other Dogma based belief systems instituted to subjugate mankind by those with power and knowledge. Now it just gets me a bunch of hate mail and strange looks from religious extremists.

Without knowledge there is no power. Knowledge is the liberator of the spirit. The chains of ignorance have weighted us down for thousands if not millions of years on this Planet, and I suspect others. Philosophy attempts to qualify reality with logic, theology refines it with Dogma, and a very rudimentary reward and punishment cycle. Cause and effect in other words. Most of our problems as a species, have come from Linear thinking. In Martial Arts there is a saying, "no pain, no gain" this is not true. This is just a convenient answer to a complicated question. It would be better explained as. The mind and body must become one to reach maximum manifestation potential. After 35 years in Martial Arts, and a lot of pain, there has been much gain for me. However my gain is not commensurate with the pain I endured training my body to resist attack and ill health. My gain has been more in the spiritual realm. I have learned to be still, and become one with my surroundings.

A master that does not engage in physical combat does not need an armor to ward off the blows of his enemies, he needs a prepared mind to thwart his enemies long before there is an opportunity for physical confrontation. Once this level is reached, the physical confrontation, if there were to be one, would be insignificant to the spiritually developed master. Harmony is the key to eternal well being. Love is the most complete expression of Harmony we can understand.

Reality is not linear in nature. Logic is not always the answer, Fuzzy logic is more applicable in many cases. Occams Razor is a good example of Linear thinking. This misconception has guided Science to an endless chain of dead ends in the field of particle physics and Non Linear Resonance. http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Occams_razor this is one of the fundamental principles of the Scientific Method http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Scientific+method . This methodology is assured to yield very slow and painstaking advance at the cost of rejecting applicable solutions, that should be considered to be paradigm shifts that should define the ensuing course of investigation. In Physics, we have discovered all the required principles and methodologies with which to formulate a unified theory and proceed to create technologies of transcendental proportions. The problem is not in function but in understanding. Physicists and Scientists in general, demand that everything must make "sense" according to the scientific method. Every experiment must be reproducible by every Tom, ****, and Harry with a PhD after his name. This is a fundamental deterrent to successful experimentation, and timely discovery. Too many cooks spoil the broth. (Oh God, now "I'm" doing it!!!) Anyway, the constant disagreement among leaders in the respective disciplines and the brutal chastisement of anyone that dares to question the norm. Keeping It Simple and Stupid Keeps Us! Simple and Stupid. KISSKUSS See, I do have a sense of humor.

Ultimately there is only one truth and that is that we are the creation of a simple underlying principle, transcended to a complex expression. Universal Love.

The basic idea is that if you "Focus" your intent properly, you can make things happen that normally would not. Culture calls this Magick, and many other things. In "reality" there's no Magick there is only spirit and the creative force (love). What we call "Love" is really everything we believe about God all bundled up in one word. Words are very powerful. A word is as close as we can come the expression of "thought" with our 3 dimensional equipment. Words are made up of sounds (modulated frequencies) that have been designed by our collective ancestors to provide tangible representations of thought. Our ancestors in many ways had superior metaphysical intellects when compared to the average person walking the Earth today.

We have distractions that our ancestors did not. TV, Newspapers, Hype, Global Conglomerates, and a measure based system of life and economy. A massive amount of EMFs and ELFs, disinformation, and tools of mind control being used by every Nation and most large Corporations. We are beings that have gone astray, we have lost our way in the din, glitter, manipulation, and constant fear, created by modern experience.

Sacred Geometry principles adhered to in the development of these programs, combined with principles of Quantum Computing and Non Linear Resonance are utilized to create Fibonacci spiral based constructs joining 2 or more time/space coordinates and effect an exchange of energy without draining the vital energy of the operator. The use of typed Affirmations, Colors, Symbols, Sounds, Modulated Frequencies, Harmonics, Binaural Beats, Ancient Numerical Systems, Elements of The Kabala, The structure of the Universe, the power of the Computer and most important of all. THE FOCUSED INTENT OF THE OPERATOR, can make things happen in physical reality as a chain of non linear causal events or manifestations leading to the original intent of the operator. The software takes whatever ability you have, and facilitates the end result by creating the simile of the manifestation ability of a Master of Metaphysics, High Priest, or Shaman if you prefer.

All that being said. The programs I have written, Cybershaman, The Miracle 6, MINERVA (Mental Imaging Neuro-Synchronistic Enhanced Remote Viewing Assistant), and ACES ( Astrological Causal Engineering System,) are meant to help us cut though the constant assault on our senses and give us the ability to follow our path in a way that employs divine technology that counteracts the side effects of modern life, and the symptoms of culturally or otherwise induced behavioral modification and/or manipulation.

What is required from the user is the following:


1. The program and a PC
2. The ability to type a description of what you want (mantra, prayer, affirmation, healing, help, communication)
3. The ability to Type a description of the Beneficiary (Person, Place, Circumstance, God, concept, thought form)
4. Set the time for the program to run 1-540 minutes
5. Optionally selecting Symbols, Sounds, Frequencies, Images
6. The ability to singularly visualize the above described instructions, already accomplished for just long enough to click the set button.
7. Start the transmission and forget about it.

If you do this, it will change your life and your perception of reality. For the better if you use it with integrity. What can you accomplish? What you would normally consider miraculous, or impossible. Clustered Water, Orb Photography, Spiritual Healing, Acupuncture (if you are licensed) And a whole lot of other things.

How much does it cost?

Free trial available now. Free
Cybershaman Basic will be back in 2 weeks or less.
Cybershaman 5 (3 simultaneous programs) and Basic Symbols and Features $169.00
Cybershaman 5 (6 simultaneous programs) and Full Symbols and Features $395.00
Cybershaman 5 (12 simultaneous programs) and Full Symbols and Features $495.00
Miracle 6 (12 simultaneous programs) and Full Symbols and Features + 3 hours training $845.00

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:30 pm 
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[b]Starduster,[/b]

You've touched a very interesting area here and it also happens to be the area I work in.

There are other very advanced systems out there that can have profound effects and are based on "actual" science rather than radionic "mysticism" for lack of a better word. I'm not in any way putting Cybershaman down here, only that there is so much more to this. While Cybershaman clearly has an effect on or for its users, there is a great deal of research taking place in the area of radionics/reality creation systems. Even the word radionic is now believed to be a misnomer as it implies "energy" and is described in "energetic" terms when it is really informational, something completely diferent. Many of these systems are also connected (or at least try to connect themselves) to Orgone theory as proposed by Wilhelm Reich.

This is part of what I have referred to in other posts as "the science of synchronicity".

This is only loosely connected to psychedelic experiences though so I'm not sure if it really belongs in this thread, as much as I'd love to keep this going <smile>.

It is really amazing what is "out there"

Phoenix

[Edited on 4-1-2007 by Phoenix823]


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Citizen , some tools are more effective than others and some not really tools at all anymore. I guess it is all in where the individual is at. Although too, it is rather nice when one can get beyond themself and work in a group in coherence with that group with no sense of loss of individuality which does require a certian maturity. I guess that's where I'm at. I love what the astronaut Edgar Mitchell discovered in a epiphanous moment as he viewed the earth from space.

"The [i]Kittyhawk[/i] was slowly rotating like a chicken on a spit, in order to balance the thermal effect on each side of the space craft; and in its slow revolution, earth was intermittently framed through the window as a tiny cresent in an all-engulfing night of stars. From this perspective, as the earth traded places in and out of view with the rest of the solar system, sky didn't exist only above the astronauts, as we ordinarily view it, but as an all-encompassing entity that cradled the earth from all sides.

It was then, while staring out of the window, that Ed experienced the strangest feeling he would ever have: a feeling of [i]connectedness[/i],as if all the planets and all the people of all time were attached by some invisable web.He could hardly breathe from the majesty of the moment. Although he continued to turn knobs and press buttons, he felt distanced from his body as though someone else were doing the navigating.

There seemed to be an enormous force field here, connecting all people, their intentions and thoughts, and every animate and inanimate form of matter for all time. Anything he did or thought would influence the rest of the cosmos, and every occurrence in the cosmos would have a similar effect on him. Time was just an artificial construct. Everything he'd been taught about the universe and the separateness of people and things felt wrong. There were no actions or individual intentions. The natural intelligence that had gone on for billions of years, that had forged the very molecules of his being, was also responsible for his own present journey. This wasn't something he was simply comprehending in his mind, but an overwhelming visceral feeling, as though he were physically extending out of the window to the furthest reaches of the cosmos.

He hadn't seen the face of God. it didn't feel like a standard religious experience so much as a blinding epiphany of meaning-what the Eastern religions often term as 'ecstasy of union' . It was as though in a single instant Ed Mitchell had discovered and felt The Force."

The Field, by Lynne McTaggart, p.6&7

I think in these times and what these materials show is other ways or other tools than those of the old paradigm to achieve those so called higher states or expanded states of consciousness for some us anyway. Because I have always been off of the beaten track and asked questions most others didn't , the answers would come to me in a similar manner as Ed Mitchell above or Viktor Schauberger below:

"The Schauberger's' principal preoccupation was the conservation of the forest and wild game, and even in earliest youth my fondest desire was to understand Nature, and thus to come closer to the truth; a truth that I was unable to discover either at school or in church.

"In this quest, I was thus drawn time and time again, up into the forest. I could sit for hours on end and watch the water flowing by without ever becoming tired or bored. At the time I was still unaware that in water the greatest secret lay hidden. Nor did I know that water was the carrier of life or the ur-source of what we call consciousness. Without any preconceptions, I simply let my gaze fall on the water as it flowed past. It was only years later that I came to realize that running water attracts our consciousnesses like a magnet and draws a small part of it along in its wake. It is a force that can act so powerfully, that one temporarily loses consciousness, and involuntarily falls asleep. As time passed, I began to play a game with water's secret powers; I surrendered my so-called free consciousness and allowed the water to take possession of it for a while. Little by little this game became very earnest, because I realized that one could detach one's own consciousness from the body and attach it to that of the water."

"When my own consciousness was eventually returned to me, then the water's deeply concealed psyche often revealed the most extraordinary things to me. As a result of this investigation a researcher was born, who could dispatch his consciousness on a voyage of discovery, as it were. In this way I was able to experience things that had escaped other people's notice, because they were unaware that a human being is able to send forth his free consciousness into those places the eyes cannot see."

"By practicing this blindfolded vision, I eventually developed a bond with mysterious Nature, whose essential being I then slowly learnt to perceive and understand."

http://www.frank.germano.com/viktorschauberger_b.htm


I guess drugs aren't all that they are cracked up to be. Who needs them?:P:):D

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An example of what the WMM can do and do.

"Responses from James - Session 1
Question 1: In the third interview with Dr. Neruda, there is a statement that there exists a Corteum technology to increase fluid intelligence to "super"- human levels by inducing a functional cluster within the thalamocortical system. What is this functional cluster (electrical, biological), and could the WingMakers material (i.e. music, art, poetry) be used in such a fashion?

You have successfully touched on a subtle component of the WingMakers' material. The story contains scenarios that are fictional accounts of factual occurrences. For example, as you point out, the third interview makes this disclosure about functional clusters, but the Corteum technology is a fictional account for the factual occurrence of how the WingMakers' materials can -- as depicted in the philosophy papers -- stimulate functional clusters in certain regions of the brain.

The brain itself is divided into regions, and within the regions they are divided into subsets. Some subsets interact among themselves more than others, and these are called functional clusters. The brain is designed to have various circuits, of which contemporary brain researchers have identified three, which they call convergent, divergent, and reverberating circuits. A functional cluster can have a divergent circuit that conducts neural activity to outlying regions of the brain or CNS. Sensory information (e.g., sounds, symbols, and images) can be produced that stimulates the temporal formation of just such a functional cluster within the thalamocortical system that catalyzes a pre-designated shift in consciousness.

Whether you can equate this shift in consciousness as inducing an increase in fluid intelligence is dependent on other factors. This is not a singular dynamic core, but rather an integral part of a larger dynamic system that connects the individual not only to their human-soul consciousness, but that also of the Genetic Mind. Within the thalamic complex is a subset known as the Intra-Laminar Nuclei (ILM). ILN neurons venture extensively throughout the cortex, enervating every cortical section. They're distributed within the central region of each thalamus in a toroidal (doughnut-shaped) mode, enabling widespread influence on the thalamic system. The ILN activation is a significant key to the discovery of the Grand Portal.

The WingMakers' music, art, and word symbols are designed to stimulate the ILN region to act as a synchronizing mechanism for human consciousness and the Genetic Mind. I realize this is difficult to comprehend, but as research into this brain function ensues over the next twenty years, it will be proven that the ILN is a key "engine" in synchronizing the human-soul consciousness to the fine-grain consciousness of the Genetic Mind, making the Genetic Mind accessible for short bursts at will.

There is within the thalamocortical system what scientists refer to as the reticular thalamic nucleus (nRt). It's widely accepted by neuroscience that nRt plays a vital role in the judicious regulation of the flow of neural information between the thalamus and cortex. What is not understood is how specific sensory information (light frequencies, sound frequencies, rhythmic synchronization, ULF, symbolic images) can influence how the ILN and nRt systems interoperate to form a hybrid functional cluster that enhances fluid intelligence and accessibility to the Genetic Mind. This discovery is yet twenty years in the making, but it will occur, and the WingMakers will play a critical role in this discovery. "

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:45 pm 
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Wow. Great thoughts and ideas people. You've really gone into depth here. Thanks!

Pheonix: I agree completely that the use of any object or substance should be left completely to the individual's choosing. I also agree that we need to ask ourselves if allowing an individual to use a "thing" will harm that person or infringe on any body else. That's an important element, absolutely. And of course the "freedom of will" should be taken in context. For example, someone might then ask, "So do we let anybody do anything? Do we let someone cut of her fingers because she says it's enlightening?" Obviously there are so many shades of gray.

Personally, I resonate with the tribal model of an elder council that does not force decisions on anybody, but which makes recommendations and guides society. And of course these recommendations would have to be strongly considered coming from the kinds of beings who sit on such a council.

In regard to your question: "Can any of us turn a glass of water into an "enlightenment experience" that is of the same "quality" and "power" as a hallucinogenic? If not, why not? If someone claims that they really are the "same" are they being authentic or only speaking in principle?"

I think you've touched on something interesting here. My opinion is that it "can be done," that is, the experience of a glass of water can be made every bit as powerful as that of hallucinogens. I guess it would depend on the ability of the individual. Ultimately though, my question is, why would I want to make it as "powerful" and of the same "quality"? When I say that any thing can be used as a tool for enlightenment, what I mean is that by giving myself fully to that moment, fully to that experience, I open as that experience and become it. Perhaps it is possible through some form of homeopathic resonance to create a "mind expanding" effect similar to that of entheogens by drinking water.

For me, I was speaking in principle, because I have not yet drank a glass of water and "taken off," so to speak. But again, for me that is not the purpose. What I am trying to recognize is that each experience is valuable in and of itself. I need not seek to change it or make it like another experience, and moreover, I need not compare it to anything else. So by giving myself fully to a glass of water, I can gain something, or let something go, for that matter. And isn't that what enlightenment is, to let go and to become "en-lightened"? Rather than striving to make one experience like another, I simply allow each to be and offer each my full consciousness. The principle is the same when journeying through the realms of psilocybin or salvia, or when meditating on a WM's painting.

This segues into Shayalana's comments about attaching our consciousness to other aspects of reality, or "detaching our consciousness" and using it to venture into places that cannot normally be seen and to learn something new from that. Certainly it is amazing that we all have this ability and Lynne McTaggart has demonstrated it. So, who needs "drugs"? My answer is, nobody "needs" them. It is a matter of personal choice and preference. The question is: What works for you? Do you like to gaze at the flowing water and allow your consciousness to meld with it and drift to other realms of thought and perception? This is one option we have. Do you prefer meditating silently in a dark room? This is another option. And the options go on, and on.

I'm familiar with the power of the WMM's because I've witnessed it in my own life. In other words, I've experienced it for my self. I know it works because I've seen it and felt it. And, I have remained open to other avenues of growth. I have not adhered to the WM's only, even if they may seem to be the most comprehensive and effective medium for what they offer us. In fact, because of my understandings taken from the WMM's, all the other facets of my reality have become all the more powerful, imbued with same energy given by the WMM's because I have made it so. That is my reality.

Anyhow - this thread has turned out to be interesting, at least for me. The article you posted was very interesting starduster. I'd like to learn more about programs like that. I've had some teaching on "radionics" or "informational-intentional" creation, and I agree with you and Pheonix that this has massive potential for us.

Now, in the context of this thread, how might radionics and the kinds of programs you mentioned relate to Psychedelics, or rather, the consciousness sometimes associated with Psychedelics and not necessarily derived from them? It seems to me that as we expand our consciousness, there will be no limit to what we can create. We could literally rebuild the entire world if we so chose. I imagine that collectively, using this kind of power, we could easily purify this planet and return it to a pristine condition. But I would think it would also require a large number of people with relatively high "levels" of consciousness to achieve that.

Where do Psychedelics fit into this? I'm not sure. But it has been suggested that they facilitate access to the "gaian mind" which may in fact be referring to what James calls the "genetic mind." Or it may indeed by facilitating access to some aspect of the Earthmind, the intelligence of the planet itself. Who knows...just speculation at this point. But if it's true that there are myriad ways of connecting to the planetary intelligence, than we will be able to encourage a broader array of people to participate in the restoration of the planetary system and the cocreation of a new world.


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Psychedelics are the result of an artificial chemical stimulus that sets the brain askew in terms of it's receptor sites in the neurons which produce an artificially derived experience called psychedelic which is really brain cells dying. Epiphanies are another thing all together (a little pun here) :), such as Ed Mitchell and Viktor Shauberger experienced. They were mind expanding in that they felt a sense of unity with all else and this changed their lives and others in pursuing that sense of unity. I don't see that happening too much with psychedelics, probably because not much of a brain is left after too many experiences . Perhaps it is time we discovered inwards all the possible "highs" we have the potential of experiencing for when we find within ourselves that unifying connection to all of life and truly feel it without some artificial chemical aid , psychedelics become a mote issue.There is nothing else for me to say about this. So... so long and thanks for the fish.:P

[Edited on 4-1-2007 by Shayalana]

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I believe you have missed the entire point of what I've offered, Shayalana. From my own experience, I can tell you that my brain cells are very much alive. I suppose it depends on what exactly one puts into the body. Some substances can be very harmful. The "Psychedelics" I'm referring to have been well researched and have been shown to be relatively benign. But anything can be dangerous. It is possible to die from drinking too much water at one time. It's always easy for us to highlight the extremes of any particular thing, but what happens then is we lose out on the real value involved when that thing is used moderately and with sacred intent. In any case, as to your comment, cells are dying all the time and being remade. Everything we do has an effect on that.

[Edited on 5-1-07u07 by Citizen]

[Edited on 5-1-07u07 by Citizen]


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et all, the WMMs refer to this study of frequencies (fractiles?) as cymatics[quote]In the study of wave phenomenon known as the science of cymatics, sound waves produce an effect on inert matter, structuring it into geometric, even archetypal forms. This same cause and effect relationship of sound waves on matter is what produces the effect at the atomic and cellular levels of the human instrument. However, it is more than mere physical impressions of the sound waves. There are harmonics within the sound that extend into higher and lower frequencies than the audible range of the human ear, but nonetheless impact on the vibrational structure of the human instrument’s DNA, mind-brain structure, and central nervous system[/quote]
http://www.wingmakers.com/music-hakomi4-6.html

...and explain that they are embedded into the art, music and poetry...Introduced as a "new" medium, in the old Intro, the Interviews, and more detail in the Fourth Philo... it appears that this "technology" is used by entities of other dimensions...to enhance their intelligence.

I am presuming that this is a permanant alteration...or should we call it a "correction" having read also that at some point our DNA was tampered with...and caused us to be more hostile and aggressive.

I understood that this deviation from our original design, also left us more easily manipulated...but that this requires that we remain at a "lower" frequency, thus the use of elf waves, fear and self doubt...While encompased by these frequencies it becomes natural to be more dependant upon "externals"(leaders, hierarchy and shaumen) not to mention inclined to settle our differences with vilolence.

The "flower children" who made psychadelics so popular appeared (to me) to be more open minded, in touch with nature and non aggressive...paving the path to the doors of perception...I don't believe that they "fried" their brains, but just the oppocite...I think they stimulated parts of their brain that had long been dormant...and for the first time. seriously questioned "the system" or programing of the GM.

And this is the magic of the WMM and especially the forum...where we can exchange perceptives...collectively enhance our personal belief system, without violating the Sovereignty of the Individual... when we trust/accept all points of view as genuine expressions of personal wisdom ;).



for those interested in specific effects of frequencies on the brain...
http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm

]

[Edited on 5-1-2007 by starduster]

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At the time of initial use of psychedelics little if nothing was known about any long term effects and it was at a time where many avenues were opening so that we could know what we do today.However, a lot of research has taken place since then and new findings have come to light if not other avenues opened much more amiable to the well being for conducive functioning of the brain. More is known about the cells and how they work now and that they are finely tuned to receive certian nutrients so to speak through certian receptor sites. If those receptor sites are subjected to other than those nutrients repeatedly, they change to accomodate the new substance and therefore starve from lack of nutrition and die. Some brain cells cannot be replaced. It is more than this though it comes from a profound respect for the awesome wonder that this body is and a curiosity that knows there is so much more to it than we know. I would not want to sacrifice the optimal discovery and functioning of this body for a temporary high that could possibly bar it from greater use , extraordinary experiences and multidimensional knowledge. Has it occurred to anyone to simply ask for greater experiences and be patient enough to allow them to unfold? It can be that simple when we un-complicate our selves.

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I am just completing dancing the Grand Cycle again and much is coming to me about the functioning and unfolding of potentials of the body. How wonderful that each and every cell has consciousness and that all of those cells are so synchronised that they work as a unified whole and if not interfered with will unfold all of their potentials when left under the direction of the "Energetic Heart" with a brain intact and totally in sync with it. The greatest polluter of the brain and body is ignorance. This time I really am done.:P

[Edited on 5-1-2007 by Shayalana]

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[quote][i]Originally posted by Citizen[/i]
Hello Everyone,

I thought I'd start off by offering a new thread, or least a thread I haven't yet seen here. I'm curious about your perceptions and/or experiences of the [b]Psychedelic Realm[/b], particularly in relation to the WM Cosmology.

I'll start the discussion with my own offering.

My perception of Psychedelics is that they may be used as powerful catalysts for the rapid expansion of consciousness. I see them not simply as the red pill (or was it the blue?). I see them as more than the Alien giving the Mind permission to go for a frolick in the Hypercontinuum, as Mckenna sometimes called it.

Truly, I perceive that Psychedelics may be used as activators, or least as accessors to information which activates and transforms, and reorganizes consciousness. In this way, they may even be seen as Tributary Zones, or doorways to TZ's. Much of this, I believe, depends on the [b]intent, skill, and consciousness[/b] of the Traveler.

My own experiences have confirmed that hypothesis, that Psychedelics may be used as catalysts to a rapid expansion in consciousness. And why not? By consciously using the catalyst to enter that "other" dimension of perception, we are accessing information that we might not otherwise be accessing, or at the very least, we are synthesizing that information in ways we usually do not. Wasn't it mentioned somewhere in the WMM that we are constantly synthesizing more information than we are consciously aware of? And isn't it true that a Tributary Zone brings that information to our attention in [i]some[/i] way?

I'd like to hear from you on this, and go from there... :P

[Edited on 3-1-07u07 by Citizen] [/quote]

i make note of the (potential) differenciations between the "terms"
Psychedelic
hallucins
and
drug's
Realms

PSI seems "natural"
hallu seems "from mind" (also found in nature)
drugs seems "man-made"

just my observation
nice thread, by the way

[Edited on 5-1-2007 by thyme]

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Dear Citizen, I can not thank you enough for this topic, as it continues to expand my awareness of "altered states". While allowing my mind to be open to explore this topic, I was inspired to listen to this "google vid"...which introduced me to the ancient "drug" of choice...the most refined form of gold, called "exotic matter, which not only balances the functionaity of the right and left brain...but could also be the means used by the Egyptians to "levitate" the huge stones of the Pyramids... and is now being researched as the element that will bend time/space

so without further adue, I offer you the "drug" of the future/past:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... sync&hl=en

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And thanks for being part of it Starduster. I think your responses have been interesting and thought-provoking. I'll check that video out later and get back to you. It looks very interesting. It seems to me that with the technological and consciousness advances we are making, that certain "substances" will become obsolete and be replaced with newer bio-technologies, or other types of technologies that will allow us to explore our consciousness even more, and in ways that are perfectly congruent with the health of our "exploration- instrumentation." Cool stuff.

[Edited on 6-1-07u07 by Citizen]


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here's another psychodelic we overlooked...

[quote]The National Geographic Channel sent a film crew to Peru to shadow a pair of Americans on their quest to try ayahuasca. See the video for yourself how the ritual ceremony begins.

For centuries, Amazonian shamans have used ayahuasca as a window into the soul. The sacrament, they claim, can cure any illness. The author joins in this ancient ritual and finds the worlds within more terrifying—and enlightening—than ever imagined. [/quote]

Watch the video >> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adven ... /peru.html

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Yes I'm familiar with ayahuasca. Haven't used it but read about it and it sounds powerful. If you find that particular sacrament interesting, starduster, you might also be interested in learning about Ibogaine, a psychedelic derived from a type of bush, I believe, found in places in Africa. Apparently it is on a par with ayahuasca as far as the intensity of the change and the process can last up to 36 hours. BTW, very cool video on the monatomic gold. It got me thinking about getting some for myself.


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humm...I thought I posted yesterday in response to your mention of Ibogaine... seems you have done your homework...this is by far one of the heirarchy's best kept secrets... the cure for addictions of all kinds...or so they say.;)

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