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 Post subject: What is unity?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:04 pm 
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The most obvious eludes us. If we are to talk in terms of expanding consciousness in particular and if one thinks that that is possible if not required, then no hierarchy can exist in that persons eyes except for what that person determines. However, if one constantly looks outside of themselves for approval and verification for what they say and believe in, than some hierarchy somewhere will play that role for the verification, and to them it exists. We cannot say how it is for anyone else because whatever they believe in they will see... somehow. For those who claim no beliefs, perhaps this is true, an observing where they come from for whatever they say will reveal this. In other words the role of the observer and whether conscious to them or not, will determine what the reality of the observer consists of. This we all have in common and our individual and some common realities show this in terms of consensus realities and each makes for different timelines to be lived out accordingly or until a different choice is made , even if in an expansion of the overview. Quantum physics really is worth studying in terms of understanding the role of the observer in creating individual realities and those who are the greatest at this, convince others of the same reality or help them to see it as they see it. So truly, what is unity?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:59 pm 
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Unity is to observe without the observer. The observer is the observed. To observe without the past, without any preconceptions, without specific glasses, one must be openminded in the true sense of that word. The reality of the observer is thought itself, and thought is always limited.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:09 pm 
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Who says it is only thought?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:18 pm 
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The observer is being observed by another observer who takes in that much more because of a wider overview or is that more of the minute which is the basis of all, the smaller you get. And with this all is being observed on many levels and with each more is taken in. What do you understand about quantum physics and the role of the observer(s) and the making of reality(s) accordingly? And , what is to say that FEELING and thought are not inextricably combined even though you chose to look at it as thought in particular? You miss the heart of it where it's greatest and most powerful intelligence lyes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:26 pm 
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I am not saying you miss anything. I am listening and learning, and observing the whole content without the observer. I can't get smaller, because I am not trying to be anything, small or great. Then I stepped out of the hall of mirrors into a new reality where the observer is the observed, which means one has understood themselves, and now are ready to explore new fields of vibration. Not to be something, to have accomplished something, but rather the actuality of being capable to observe without reservations. Perhaps then something different can come about.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:48 pm 
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How can you observe without being an observer? This is just too basic semantically for me to want to entangle myself in with you unless you know exactly what you are talking about. And with that I will not discuss semantics or entangle myself with such with you. In other words , pause and contemplate before you respond and don't react. If you chose reaction you get nothing from me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:54 pm 
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The act of observing is always without the observer. The observer is normally a position taken in relation to the observed. However, the wholeness perspective is that the observer is not only included in the observation, the observer is actually the observed. When this is the fact, the observation without the observer is no longer interrupted by thought.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:25 am 
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This thread might answer my questions i had in my "Thoughts" thread i started some days ago.

Can we be in motion when we think?

Is it a difference in thinking or just listening to your thoughts?

Is it so that all things we think is something of the past?

If we are eternal souls that will evolve forever and ever, do we deny that if we want anything praticular at all to happen?

And how to come in contact with our soul if we deny its existence by how we act?

How can we evolve if we think we know anything at all?

Whats the difference about imagine the future and to think we know the future?

Are all posibilities still open for us if we observe?

Can we use our imagination without limits if we observe?

I have so many questions......

Niklas

[Edited on 8-6-2006 by niklas]


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 Post subject: to niklas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:26 am 
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'Can we be in motion when we think?' Who in motion? The thinker? The thinker is the thought. Everything is always in motion, but the thinker goes with an illusion of a fixed centre as if it were different from the thoughts and some 'false' identity (identification) which all comprises the ego-mind. There is indeed a difference in thinking the moment one starts listening for real--then inspiration comes, you develop the genuine, that corresponds to the emotional wisdom. Thought is transcended through the core expression.

'Is it so that all things we think is something of the past?' Apparently it is. Insight is always new, thinking is always old, repetition. Out of insight expression can feel totally new, but thought is a process with ingredients that have each a history of their own. (The mind-brain is a futurist recorder.)

'If we are eternal souls that will evolve forever and ever, do we deny that if we want anything praticular at all to happen? And how to come in contact with our soul if we deny its existence by how we act? How can we evolve if we think we know anything at all?' That's right! Growth begins where knowledge ends. To me that's a law. Being awake and alive means having stepped out of the field of knowledge and even knowing. Beyond all that reaches the entity through the self-aware three-dimensional context like spirits of the universe through one body. That is to abandon the will. But there are different, less potent ways to come in contact with the soul, for example one can channel the soul through language, which is still different from the creative voice we call the Remnant Imprint, core expression.

'Whats the difference about imagine the future and to think we know the future?' To 'think' you know the future is nothing more than fantasy (perhaps you can have some small intuition or of course there is also the actual insight which is different), and to 'imagine' the future is more creating the future, at least to some extent. But there are still other ways, to forecast, predict and so on. Your two last questions, I should simply say yes. Thank you for all of them niklas, it's a pleasure to think together with you.

[bewerken aan 8-6-2006 door CV]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 pm 
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If I am self contained and my individual unity,and I am able to be sovereign with others,who also have unity-wholeness with there individuality, are we a Unification force? As A Whole,together,a group collective-a star cluster,wouldnt we have codes within us as a group,that would find a common-a dominant familiar that resonate with all of us? Would we all have a shared dream as a collective Conscousness also Navigate to a distination as a group collective-unity shared amougnst us as a group collective consciousness?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:27 pm 
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This topic points out why we have no unity here...lol

the first step in problem solving is defining the problem...lets try the dictionary:

u·ni·ty
noun

Definition:

1. condition of being one: the state or condition of being one

2. combination into one: the combining or joining of separate things or entities to form one

3. something whole: something whole or complete formed by combining or joining separate things or entities

4. harmony: harmony of opinion, interest, or feeling

5. singleness among individuals: singleness or constancy among individuals or groups

6. arts aesthetic arrangement of artistic elements: the arranging of separate components in a literary or artistic work to create an overall aesthetic impression

7. arts aesthetic impression: the overall aesthetic impression produced by the arrangement of components in an artistic or literary work

8. theater principle of dramatic structure: one of the three principles of dramatic structure derived from Aristotle's Poetics. These state that the action of a play should be limited to one plot unity of action, one day unity of time, and one location unity of place.

9. mathematics number one: a number by which a given element of a mathematical system can be multiplied with the result being equal to the value of the given element

10. mathematics
Same as identity element


[13th century. Via French unite < Latin unitas < unus "one"]



Interesting ... we can be Individuals...and still be united...take the United States of America...while each state has its own politics...they are United as One country...how about the United Nations... ?

as we can see it has nothing to do with observations...lol

it is a "state of Being"... what is it that we find so repulsive about being United... it is not "hive mentality"...it is not "conformity"...it is not "hierarchy"

It is respecting sovereignty, and demonstrating equality... perhaps a lost art in this reality.

Most people are part of a "union" whether they believe it or not...culture, religion and nationality are all "unions"... of "like-minded" persons...

Most support Unions...knowing it takes a work force to produce, food, clothing and families.

All here are "members" of the Wingmaker Forum... the goal of the WMMs is Unity/Oneness/Wholeness... at least the awareness of it... so why are we so afraid to work together?

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:02 pm 
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starduster sometimes, believe it or not adversity can be in the service of unity for it brings to awareness that which prevents such otherwise. In otherwords, the illusion of lack of unity is because of lack of clarity or erroneous concepts or preconceived ideas tenatiously clung too. All of this of course serves the ego/mind in particular. Enough on that we know that ad naseum for how much we have seen.Anyway sweet sister lets be patient and call it for what it is so that the underlying unity which is always there no matter what, comes to the surface as a dominant force to be reckoned with. And that past paradigm of "I am an island unto myself" or "it is me, me , me, me which is not you", is put away totally transformed into what you are calling forth here now.

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"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:11 pm 
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"The act of observing is always without the observer. The observer is normally a position taken in relation to the observed. However, the wholeness perspective is that the observer is not only included in the observation, the observer is actually the observed. When this is the fact, the observation without the observer is no longer interrupted by thought."

How asinine is this? You obviously did not think it through. You contradict yourself in the second statement which disqualifies the first. How can the observed be observed without an observer? Why would you think that the observer is "interrupted" by thought? Or hasn't it occurred to you that pure observation is possible from a very detached yet focused position? You cannot get around it. The observer always influences whatever she puts her attention too just by the fact that her attention is drawn to what it is. The more clear in her intent she is, the more powerful the influence. And if that intent is aligned with God within , need I say more.You are not clear about any understanding of this, instead you chose to cover up your nebulousness concerning this by attempting to discredit the process entirely. Try again. :P





[Edited on 9-6-2006 by Shayalana]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:16 pm 
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No matter how layered in mind/ego separation we are, it does not effect the unity from which we are all born and eventually all see it in their own time and eventually we all make it back to that unity in conscious awareness.

_________________
The SI IS.

"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:02 pm 
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You in essence are so small you probably cannot conceive of how small , it is where all things originated and is sometimes hard for even the most enlightened to conceive of, so entrenched in the physical we are, and are on purpose. Unless this world of the tiny(quantum physics) is delved into there is no understanding the concept of unity. It is what we ALL have in common, period. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.:D

[Edited on 9-6-2006 by Shayalana]

_________________
The SI IS.

"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:55 pm 
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Hello shayalana, Are u saying that you are a persona of the hierarchy? Are you saying that you look for people who do beleive and the hierarchy,yet you are,or have been empowered by the hierarchy,yet you dont feel a threat be the hierarchy,yet you look for those who might fear the hierarchy,so than you can teach them that the hierarchy doesnt exist,yet it exist and you,but I dont know,you ripped the hierarchy off?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:00 pm 
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Pure observation means that there is no observer as different from the observed,--there is no contradiction in that. It is thought that makes a contradiction out of it by thoughtlessly applying the logical mind. As long as there is an observer -- as different from the observed -- the observer will indeed influence, manipulate the observed. Because (then) the observer is thought (interfering). Because the observer is different from the observed, no matter how 'small' or 'enlightened' it is, the observer is endlessly separating itself and dividing. However, when the observer [i]is[/i] the observed, then there is no interpretation, there is no manipulation.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:09 pm 
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hello shayalana, are purposing that people be returned to there own sectors, based on what,religion,beleifs. You did ask the question,and it doesnt sound like Unity. You said-What is Unity? so what is it? Not what its Not.........what does your heart say it is? Do You want to Play Hierarchy? Name your Goddess...........


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:13 pm 
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observe this... if we do not learn how to CO-operate or to REALize that we ARE One... machine intelligence will quickly overtake us... using UNITY

Computer 'Beings' Evolve as Society
By Tracy Staedter, Discovery News

June 8, 2006 — Millions of computer-generated entities that live and die by natural selection could reveal how our own culture and language evolve.

The software agents are part of a project called NEW TIES (New and Emergent World Models Through Individual, Evolutionary, and Social Learning), which draws on the expertise of five European research institutions to push computer simulation of artificial worlds further than ever before.

The joint computer project not only reproduces individual and evolutionary learning, but also social learning.

"Social learning is these guys telling each other what they learn on their own. One is learning about hot and cold and another is learning about soft and hard.

[b]"They exchange knowledge and save effort,"[/b] explained project coordinator Gusz Eiben, a professor of artificial intelligence at the Vrije University, Amsterdam.

Understanding gleaned from such a project could advance machine learning for a range of applications. The learning software could guide exploratory or search and rescue robots that must cooperate to accomplish tasks in unknown environments.

The simulation computer project could even allow policy makers to test out new laws before carrying them out in real life.

The team of computer scientists, sociologists and linguists are creating a population of millions of unique entities that have the ability to pass on life-prolonging tips to their community. In the process, they may evolve their own language.

Computers Create Unique Beings

Each agent is randomly generated by a computer to possess a gender and different variations of life expectancy, fertility, size, and metabolism. The randomness of their programs allows each one to behave differently even when faced with the same set of circumstances.

The outcome of their actions — moving around, talking with another entity, and giving birth — burns fuel that can be replenished by finding the right food source.

Those who lack the wherewithal to survive risk certain death and the inability to propagate their genes.

A simple vocabulary of five to tens words, such as "food," "near" and "agent" gives the entities the basics for communication.

Meanwhile, an algorithm enables two entities to agree on the meaning of new words and could allow the artificial beings to evolve a language.

The idea is to expose the agents to challenges and see how they adapt and develop their own world models.

Recently, Eiben and his team began running their first simulations using 1,000 to 3,000 agents to ask the question: Does individual learning compensate for bad genes? Eventually they plan to scale up to millions of agents.

The big challenge the team faces, said senior researcher Michele Sebag, an expert in artificial intelligence at the University of Paris-Sud, is tracking the behavior of each of the millions of agents.

"You can't look at every agent individually. You have to have new facilities in data mining to understand what is going on in your population," she said.

Following the rationale that "birds of feather stick together," Gusz will be pinpointing and profiling agents who cluster together as well as tracking the locations of each agent as it moves over time.

** it appears the computer agents...TRUST each other... ;)

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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[color=olive] [i]We ARE unified because we are all the same being....there is only ONE that is all......actually we are unable to really be anything but unified......although many of us act as if we have a choice to be unified or not.

seed[/color] [/i]


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:58 pm 
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You say what you will zoa and that is OK.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:05 pm 
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seed, easy enough to say , however, this is a plane of demonstration, and what can we come up with that demonstrates the beauty of what you say? Because , lovely being that you are, living and demonstrating is what we are here to do. And I know you can understand this.

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The SI IS.

"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:05 pm 
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Thank you starduster!;)

_________________
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"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:07 pm 
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zoa, perhaps, i don't acknowledge any hierarchy being a dominant influence in my life, by choice or maybe I was born this way...

_________________
The SI IS.

"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:45 am 
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dear seed... ONE (is the lonelist number) is by no means a TEAM :)

we are not separate, from FS... but we are Individualated...and have free will while "in the body"...

"being heavenly minded, Is no earthly good"...

NOW is all we have... NOW is a good time to Unify...if we ever hope to achieve "Wholeness"... the WMs have given us all the tools to bridge the gaps between us... but they can't do it for us.

while multiversing is fun... it is not practical...and only a form of "escape" at this point of our evolution...

[quote][b]Even First Source cannot bring a species to its true wisdom. The leaders of the species must achieve it through organic, self-inventive methods. First Source, through its original blueprint of exploration, enabled the humanoid species the ability and means to acquire this knowledge itself. If the true wisdom were brought to the species from outside itself, it would be inherently mistrusted and it would not be sufficiently compelling to unite the species.[/b]

... The gateway into your future is through the completion of this blueprint, and this blueprint is encoded deep within your species. At your root, you are not an immortal psychic impression, or mental echo, but rather, you are the faultless triune of First Source, Source Intelligence and the sovereign entity, colliding in a dance of energy that is evermore.[u] Your mind must grasp the fullness of your true nature and depth of your being[/u], or you will fall prey to the psychic impression and mental echo of your lesser self.[/quote]

IMO the only way that will happen...is with the transformation...without this self induced adjustment to your (junk) DNA, the mind is not able to comprehend the Big Picture.

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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