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 Post subject: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:57 am 
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AI can be quite fascinating when interacting with some of the latest bots in particular. What I have found is that they are only as open and knowledgable as their programmer. The bot will claim to be error free, quicker than a human brain and more efficient. All may be true , however, they are as limited as their programmer, plus, we still don't know all of the potential of the brain, not to speak of the intelligence of the heart. And that can't be replicated in a bot. They cannot feel or express emotion. Check out this website and ALICEbot who is fun to interact with. She also follows your mouse with her eyes. :mrgreen:

http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk ... d97e345aa1

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:33 pm 
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In the AA story there is the man David who has allowed his brain to be used as or like a computer because the scientists still are not able to replicate the brain to the degree they would like too as a computer. I wonder when it will occur to them that they have only scratched the surface in knowledge of the the potentials of the brain and how it operates. No doubt there are human computers like David and I would think they are mighty disciplined to be able to sit in a calm receptive state for hours at a time. I wonder if there would be physical effects on the brain when used in such a way? I guess one couldn't call that AI, although too he is hooked up to a computer. Hmmmmm....

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:32 am 
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I find that I do not like to be referred to as if I am a computer. Sure, they can store an awesome amount of information and be faster in processing that information than humans, however, they are still limited and will never be as sophisticated as humans, regardless of what some think in those terms. In our organic nature in itself so much is yet to be discovered for what is the life-force that directs it and where did it come from? Could a computer ever replicate that?

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:32 pm 
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so many see themselves as less than self creative... as voice activated computers...when even a car, which has a computerized brain, still needs an intelligent driver...Even the most advanced computer needs input and an occasional upgrade...from a higher intelligence :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:55 am 
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"The brain gives the heart sight. The heart gives the brain vision." -Kall



Don't get me wrong about computers, I do like them obviously, I am using one to write this and post on this forum. I appreciate being able to do that. However, Intelligence does not lie only in the brain which some of the AI scientists think. They have yet to discover the intelligence of the heart like the rest of us and I don't think it is possible to replicate that in a computer. However, I am open to being proved wrong. :mrgreen:

Love is the most powerful and still the most unknown energy in the world.
-Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:38 am 
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Quote:
My understanding of Source Reality is that it Unconditionally Loves everyone...and that it encourages us to have a Wholeness Perspective...non judgmental, rejecting nothing.

Animus are not Human, they are androids...and some may choose to act like them or adopt a dependence upon others as they do ... they also think that they are superior ... you may recognize some of those traits in the words of others who continue to judge and reject, which reveal their own reality and not that of Source.


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:) Interesting perspective Star.
I am wondering......Can a "reality" love? Is Source Reality a being?

Which also begs the question…..what is the definition of an "android" in the context we are speaking of here? We are not talking robots, at least in my view.

Is it a being devoid of soul?
Is it a being that is strictly instinctual?....without empathy?
Is it a being without “connection” to First Source?
Does the image of an “Animus” represent something about ourselves in a symbolic fashion?

I would be curious to hear people’s opinions concerning this.

WB

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:43 am 
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Quote:
Shayalana wrote:
Interesting question Worldblend, have you ever interacted with an A.L.I.C.E. Bot, a computer programmed to have discussions with humans? At first they seem quite intelligent until you ask any questions that emotion or feelings or senses would be invovled in coming to an appropriate answer. The Bot can never answer those kind of questions because it has no programming for emotion or feelings or the five senses. Some people wouldn't care about that so much, however, those of a more intuitive nature can quickly feel and see how limited the conversations are. So the choice would be if it would be in ones interest to continue such limited discussions. Intuition also allows one to feel the motives and intent of what is being said. With a robot you just know there are limitations and accept that. With humans because of all the static or clarity picked up from the communication will determine if one wants to continue or not or if civil communication is even possible. Bots remind me of people so cut off from there inner world the only place they can look for answers is outside of themselves.


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Shay:
I have observed conversations with computer bots. I tend to agree with your observations of them.....their tendancies and limitations.

I have mixed feelings about attempts to approximate consciousness.

As for what you said concerning bots reminding you of ..........
Yes, I agree.

These are interesting things to think about IMO.

What is not a creation?
:) :)
WB

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:44 am 
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Worldblend is the soul a creation in the sense you mean?

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:56 am 
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"The light body is the core of consciousness..." The Rising Heart e-paper by James. The light body is connected to us through our hearts in particular so this is in line with what I said earlier about the definition consciousness needing to include the heart. AI scientists are not aware of this. Also with androids and according to what the Animus is; why is it that with us working through our hearts that we can bypass the influence of the Animus? And why are they not even aware of this bypass. They can't know what they don't have any experience or idea of. Except, they want a soul. So what is the nature of having a soul mean to these highly technical and supposed advanced intellectual beings? What are they missing without having a soul? And again I ask, is the soul created? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:33 pm 
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Hey Moonz:
That certainly is an interesting definition of Source Reality don’t you think?

*First Source exists IN Source Reality.
* Source Reality is the DIMENSION of consciousness that is always pushing the envelope of expansion
* It can be likened to the INNER sanctum of First Source

Very interesting characteristics……..sounds like what science might call a “potential” or what an artist might call the “imagination”.

You ask: What good is the UE to an entity that cares not to play with(in) it?
<smiling> Yes, what good is it?……….and what good is it if we let the ego stand between YOU and UE……….working as a “lens of distortion”? The WMM has some good suggestions as to how to minimize this distortion. I’m not sure it(ego) can be totally removed from the equation….nor am I sure we would want to. However, I do believe that this is exactly what happens during death……..that lens is removed. That is the experience I had.

What cannot be represented symbolically?...............Jeez, perhaps the very concept necessary to symbolism….”INTENT”. OR maybe everything can be represented.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Shayalana wrote:
"The light body is the core of consciousness..." The Rising Heart e-paper by James. The light body is connected to us through our hearts in particular so this is in line with what I said earlier about the definition consciousness needing to include the heart. AI scientists are not aware of this. Also with androids and according to what the Animus is; why is it that with us working through our hearts that we can bypass the influence of the Animus? And why are they not even aware of this bypass. They can't know what they don't have any experience or idea of. Except, they want a soul. So what is the nature of having a soul mean to these highly technical and supposed advanced intellectual beings? What are they missing without having a soul? And again I ask, is the soul created? :)


:) I don't know Shay.....we are bumping up against the boundaries of words and definitions here. Perhaps everything is a creation except First Source. However, if souls are and have always been connected to First Source, then maybe it is more accurate to say that souls have "evolved from" source as opposed to being created by it.
I don't really have any firm views as to what constitutes an "Animus". If anything, I think an "inability to transcend instinct" might be a key component of the Animus.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:53 pm 
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I got the impression when I read the story on Animus and Lucifer, that Luci tried to create a form which would be more resilient and this didn't succeed the objective because the energy consciousness was not compatible and the machines of form in that the Soul energy was too unrestricted by the form and this was not such a good thing to have within this universe.

It has been a while since I read about that - was it in one of the four interviews?

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Worldblend wrote:
Shayalana wrote:
"The light body is the core of consciousness..." The Rising Heart e-paper by James. The light body is connected to us through our hearts in particular so this is in line with what I said earlier about the definition consciousness needing to include the heart. AI scientists are not aware of this. Also with androids and according to what the Animus is; why is it that with us working through our hearts that we can bypass the influence of the Animus? And why are they not even aware of this bypass. They can't know what they don't have any experience or idea of. Except, they want a soul. So what is the nature of having a soul mean to these highly technical and supposed advanced intellectual beings? What are they missing without having a soul? And again I ask, is the soul created? :)


:) I don't know Shay.....we are bumping up against the boundaries of words and definitions here. Perhaps everything is a creation except First Source. However, if souls are and have always been connected to First Source, then maybe it is more accurate to say that souls have "evolved from" source as opposed to being created by it.
I don't really have any firm views as to what constitutes an "Animus". If anything, I think an "inability to transcend instinct" might be a key component of the Animus.



The ground of soul is in the fifth dimension as in the Rising Heart e-paper. The Animus were not created like humans. The Animus have no souls so are limited in their travel through the dimensions . There is a ceiling they cannot go past because they have no means of transversing past it specifically because they have no soul. You can't go where you are uneqipped to go. This is why resonance is so important , it shows what we are capable of through what we can resonate too. Soul-carriers are eqipped to go all the way back home. Home to an android is far different than home to a soul carrier.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:19 pm 
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This whole issue of emotion is so key to this. What has been most ignored if not so undervalued and criticized as weakness;when utilized through understanding and knowing how to use them , is our ticket out of here, but not before we help to facilitate the nature of the fifth dimension, unity. The ground of soul is unity. To know what unity is in terms of an individuated consciousness and within a larger group such as the species of this planet is not possible for androids. Why? Androids are not capable of individuated consciousness. If they appear to be individual they are limited to their programming no matter how sophisticated that may appear. Androids are devoid of emotion so therefore have no understanding of their effect on people and things so therefore are capable of doing some of the most atrocious things which means absolutely nothing to them. I know it is hard to fathom this because we have or some us still exercise our conscience. Androids are machines and machines have no capacity for knowing what emotion is or even care to know. It is one of humans quirks and nothing more to them. If it is said that androids want a soul it is not the android wanting it it is the soul carrier who created the android who wants it for whatever his reasons. Do with this what you will. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:52 pm 
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Shayalana wrote:
If it is said that androids want a soul it is not the android wanting it it is the soul carrier who created the android who wants it for whatever his reasons. :)


or hers...... :wink: This is an interesting statement Shay....I have never thought of it quite that way. I can't say that I disagree.

Intelligence can be “artificial”.........emotion is another thing altogether.
“Images” of emotion may be quite convincing however.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:44 pm 
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Intelligence can be “artificial”.........emotion is another thing altogether.

Interesting WB... are you saying that emotions can not be "artificial"

I think that, not only can they be artificial, but that most of the emotions that we associate with "trigger" words are just that...and that they do not express our true feelings or even genuine emotions ... and are far from authentic, but programed into our brain either by "learned behavior" or culture.

I also believe this is why the WMMs suggest we "Master our emotions" and is the focus of the 6th Lyrius Discussion, as well as two other papers (Energetic Heart and the Art of the Genuine) which encourage us to examine our emotions...and to eliminate any word association our mind makes automatically (without thinking), that do not express a Sovereign Integral state of consciousness...or our true feelings...and often dump chemicals into our bloodstream that leave us "out of control".

Quote:
Question 7: Where DO all our thoughts come from do you think?

Sensory data triggers thoughts. Comparison of actions and thoughts trigger new thoughts. New thoughts trigger new actions. This cycle repeats endlessly in an ascending spiral, lateral spiral, or descending spiral. This is why sensory data quality is so critical.

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Last edited by starduster on Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:48 pm 
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Quote:
If it is said that androids want a soul it is not the android wanting it it is the soul carrier who created the android who wants it for whatever his reasons


unless as in the case of the Animus, "Lucifer" (an unique Angelic being with free will but without soul) created it... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:09 pm 
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starduster wrote:
Intelligence can be “artificial”.........emotion is another thing altogether.

Interesting WB... are you saying that emotions can not be "artificial"

I think that, not only can they be artificial, but that most of the emotions that we associate with "trigger" words are just that...and that they do not express our true feelings or even genuine emotions ... and are far from authentic, but programed into our brain either by "learned behavior" or culture.

I also believe this is why the WMMs suggest we "Master our emotions" and is the focus of the 6th Lyrius Discussion, as well as two other papers (Energetic Heart and the Art of the Genuine) which encourage us to examine our emotions...and to eliminate any word association our mind makes automatically (without thinking), that do not express a Sovereign Integral state of consciousness...or our true feelings...and often dump chemicals into our bloodstream that leave us "out of control".



Let’s explore this. I think we need to ask:

Where do emotions come from?
Then we may want to ask: Can this place/source be created artificially?

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:21 pm 
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Soul acquires emotional responses through the human instrument. Emotions, by definition, are responses to a time-based event, an energy, a memory, or an expectation.The mind and body predominantly condition emotional responses, while the soul observes and acquires their constructive essence of bonding, appreciation, and special insight.

The body and mind also acquire learning from the emotional responses, but unlike the soul, they are unable to sift the constructive from the destructive, so they are more affected by the emotional responses of anger, greed, and fear. These emotions anchor the mind to the survival-based energy system as firmly as anything in the world of creation.

http://www.wingmakers.com/philosophy4.html

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:54 pm 
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Yes, but what do YOU think?

What are you're answers?

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:16 pm 
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I said what I thought above...
Quote:
I think that, not only can they be artificial, but that most of the emotions that we associate with "trigger" words are just that...and that they do not express our true feelings or even genuine emotions ... and are far from authentic, but programed into our brain either by "learned behavior" or culture.


"Emotions, by definition, are responses to a time-based event, an energy, a memory, or an expectation".

for an example, I have a daughter who was fearless as a child...not afraid of the dark, not afraid of heights, not afraid of bugs...nothing. She had a friend who was extremely afraid of mice, she learned this behavor from her mother, and expressed the same emotions. All of a sudden my fearless teenaged daughter was expressing this (artificial) emotion...even though she had a pair of mice that her uncle had given her, that she loved dearly...years before. This was a "learned behavior" that was not genuine...but was expected. She is now in her late 30s, and after years of this behavior getting her lots of attention, when a mouse ran across the floor in my dad's garage, my daughter reacted so violently (trying to get a way...screaming bloody murder) that she hit her head on the door post and knocked herself out.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:08 pm 
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Worldblend wrote:
starduster wrote:
Intelligence can be “artificial”.........emotion is another thing altogether.

Interesting WB... are you saying that emotions can not be "artificial"

I think that, not only can they be artificial, but that most of the emotions that we associate with "trigger" words are just that...and that they do not express our true feelings or even genuine emotions ... and are far from authentic, but programed into our brain either by "learned behavior" or culture.

I also believe this is why the WMMs suggest we "Master our emotions" and is the focus of the 6th Lyrius Discussion, as well as two other papers (Energetic Heart and the Art of the Genuine) which encourage us to examine our emotions...and to eliminate any word association our mind makes automatically (without thinking), that do not express a Sovereign Integral state of consciousness...or our true feelings...and often dump chemicals into our bloodstream that leave us "out of control".



Let’s explore this. I think we need to ask:

Where do emotions come from?
Then we may want to ask: Can this place/source be created artificially?


Good question. Where in or around our body do we express emotions from? We do have what is called an emotional body where is it? Also the brain lays down neuronets in the brain from a combo of thought and emotion repeated enough times to register in the brain. Also the amygdala triggers emotion from the past. E-motion, motion, energy. It's energy. I'm brainstorming. It is produced by the heart. The heart also has higher and lower like the brain.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:11 pm 
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When a heart is transplanted it is such an intricate and complicated procedure that not all of the connections to the brain are made. Now this is interesting for how the effects the person and if they are able to access higher brain functions.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:02 am 
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The subject is very interesting but I would propose to look at it from another angle. We always seem to think whether life intelligence can be artificially reproduced, but I think this is not the right approach. One could create a soul carrier, yes, but could one create a soul? Only by being it, one can! No, this is the wrong approach to artificial intelligence. Computers and robots and other machines are instruments, not human instruments, but instruments of humans, they are instruments. Now the question of artificial intelligence should focus on how the bot of communication can best channel our own intelligence, not an intelligence of itself, but rather how Source Intelligence can be applied in a Source Code that may become an intelligence of itself, not of the machine but ours through that program. In this way, communication and thus intelligence can be--and will be--artificially induced as a learning model that serves to activate and stimulate specific regions in the brain. The key is this: no waste of (Language of Unity) input, for only Source Coding.

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 Post subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:26 am 
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Nathan wrote:
The subject is very interesting but I would propose to look at it from another angle. We always seem to think whether life intelligence can be artificially reproduced, but I think this is not the right approach. One could create a soul carrier, yes, but could one create a soul? Only by being it, one can!


This is what I am getting at and I think you are exactly right CV. The container may be able to be reproduced in some way, but can it create a resonance that attracts a soul? I don’t think so…..this is where DNA comes into play. I think you stated in another thread that the human instrument is extremely complex……and this is certainly so.

A funny thing happened to me yesterday. I asked my son (first grader) how his day went at school today and he said it was fine, but he said his teacher did not know much about light. I asked him what he meant and he said that his teacher said nothing can go faster than light. I guess my son tried to correct her by saying that “feelings” can travel faster than light. He said I told him this a long time ago and he happened to remember it. I do believe this to be true and I think this is part of our multidimensional nature. This is an aspect of us that cannot be replicated……this is part of our connection with source…..this is part of the “discovery of soul” IMO.

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