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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:26 am 
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starduster wrote:

It is not passing judgment when you are simply stating the facts - 1) Nat and Watcher have no interest in the WMMs 2) they abuse the unmoderated status of the forum to serve their selves 3) they disrespect the members and the stated intentions of this forum to serve a specific purpose 4) their posts are distracting, often disruptive, and always express their ignorance of the LTO's work 5) Nat is NOT a member of this forum 6) even though it was suggested strongly (to avoid confusion) NOT to compare the Wmms to other (or their own) teachings -that is all they do - and all they have ever done ... exactly as they were programed to do - without deviation


I disagree with your list of "facts." These are your personal accusations and perceptions which are not necessarily shared by other forum members.

Quote:
... since there is no moderator of this forum, the members are responsible for its content ... when a deceptive individual joins this forum, and disrespects its members, and it purpose ... responsible members will point this out and deal with it - to the best of their abilities ...


As a responsible member of this forum, I respect the contributions of hidelight, Watcher, starduster, Shayalana and whomever, even if I do not share their perspectives. I am capable of discerning with my own intelligence whether disruption or deception is being practiced, and taking steps to avoid falling prey to it. I trust everyone here is capable of that.

The WingMakers' discussion forums exist to enable each of you to express your innermost thoughts and findings about the WingMakers' materials. It also enables you to practice and refine your ability to demonstrate respect, appreciation, and understanding. I encourage each of you to integrate these behaviors in your dialogue because they carry a kindling effect for the information contained within these materials -- both for you and those who tread with you on this path.

_________________
In all that I do, may the Heart of the One hold sway over the minds of the many.


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:30 pm 
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I know that this is a hard concept to grasp in the short time you have been here, but the FACTS remain plain for any and all to see ... If Nat and Watcher were contributing their perspectives of the WMMs ...this discussion would not be taking place ... but the fact remains, that we are discussing NAT and not the Wmms

Nat isn't even a member of this forum ... can you comprehend that ? HE ISN"T A MEMBER OF THIS FORUM ... it is a black hole that is trying to move into the WMF


There are many competing currents and conflicts within the Planetary realm before its entrance into the higher dimensions of the etheric plane. These currents will pull you, push you, and deliver you to shores of indeterminacy and questionable value. There are Light Bodies, cast into human instruments, that are so darkened, that they are like Black Holes in Space swallowing Light in their misguided ignorance. .

If you are not willing to stand up to him - I will, because, honestly I am sick an tired of the disruptions that he causes (not to mention the broadband that he has wasted) - it is an injustice to us all when he becomes the topic of discussion... in every topic in the forum ... obviously this is something that needs to be dealt with ... immediately (no matter how long it takes) - so that it will not continue to disrupt the forum - so we will all become aware of Nat's agenda (before it takes roots again) ... which is to attract all the attention he can to himself ... and to take that energy and feed the HMS until it overwhelms the WMF with its need for polarity.

I do not understand how encouraging someone to disrespect the purpose of this forum is being "a responsible member" ... you are encouraging him to continue his campaign to discuss anything BUT the Wmms ... because that is all he discusses ... that is all he has ever discussed - his personal BS as if it were even vaguely related to the Wmms .

he doesn't have a perspective of the WMMs ... he has never read them or experienced them ... and that is why he doesn't discuss them - he can't because he doesn't know what he is talking about, much less why he is here.... other than this is a place where dumping one's BS is encouraged by newbies like you.

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:58 pm 
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As a responsible member of this forum, I respect the contributions of hidelight, Watcher, starduster, Shayalana and whomever, even if I do not share their perspectives. I am capable of discerning with my own intelligence whether disruption or deception is being practiced, and taking steps to avoid falling prey to it. I trust everyone here is capable of that.

The Enlightened Expression of Sovereign Integral

_________________
All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:53 pm 
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I prefer to express myself in my own language, rather than any language of externals, but this is not to say I'm not discussing them. I have long let go of the illusion that there is anyone another can change in any way. But we can change ourselves and be our own masters, and perhaps, find each other anew on that other side. I'm trusting this will happen, I'm absolutely sure {that} this will happen. People who have come to rest and have gone beyond all their fears, are naturally friendly and original.

_________________
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Summa Iru


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:22 pm 
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He has never read the materials....not even once ?.........sounds like he has read TDP..........from a Wing Maker for humanities point of view....and not James......a Wing Maker for First Source.....not humanity....first.....like Nathan .....and so many others here......seem to espouse......First Source first.....or humanity.....can not do both....he should get it but does not......indicates mind ...under remnants of Animus influence.....must be let go. of ....2011 ....is the 'time" for this.........am coming to the conclusion that Nat....can not control ...it... controls him.....is it him.....or an alien implant.......that is making him so contrary.....regardless unconditional Love......sent to Chamber 17.....will eventually help him find the way to move this energy away from him.....


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:28 pm 
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hidelight wrote:
I prefer to express myself in my own language, rather than any language of externals, but this is not to say I'm not discussing them. I have long let go of the illusion that there is anyone another can change in any way. But we can change ourselves and be our own masters, and perhaps, find each other anew on that other side. I'm trusting this will happen, I'm absolutely sure {that} this will happen. People who have come to rest and have gone beyond all their fears, are naturally friendly and original.



I think it is clear, that we don't want you to express yourself in any language ... and we aren't going to any "other side" ... what about right here and right now Nat ... can we trust you to discuss the Wmms? ... that YOU are going to make that happen? because none of the rest of us have any problems discussing it... just you and your followers who can't breath unless you fart.

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:06 am 
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Perhaps this below will help Nat right his ship and motivate him to read the WMM.

Lyricus Discourse 3
The Nature of Knowledge


Student: Is there a technique to gain knowledge of God?

Teacher: What God do you speak of?

Student: The one and only source of all.

Teacher: No.

Student: Why then are there some who seem blessed with the knowledge of God, and some that seem completely ignorant of his presence and value? Surely those who are enlightened discovered a technique to secure their knowledge.

Teacher: There are no techniques. This is the great fallacy that has swept across the universe of sentient beings. We persist in our belief that there is a formula or ritual or teacher that can bring us enlightenment – or the knowledge of God.

Student: If there is no technique or teacher, then why does all of this exist? Why do you, my teacher, sit before me? Or why are there books and learned masters here, in this instructional setting? Are you telling me they’re all worthless?

Teacher: When there are questions there are answers waiting to be heard. All of this exists for the questions of people such as you. If these questions did not exist, this would not exist.

Student: But what’s the point if the answers are not bringing me closer to the knowledge of God?

Teacher: Why doesn’t the knowledge of destruction lay in the hands of the many instead of the hands of the few?

Student: What do you mean?

Teacher: Why is the knowledge of how to destroy humankind – on a mass level – so carefully safeguarded?

Student: You’re talking about weapons of mass destruction?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: Naturally the technology is so destructive it needs to be managed and controlled by responsible governments.

Teacher: Why is it controlled?

Student: If it were in the power of any one person to destroy the lives of many, he or she might do so if they became sick of mind.

Teacher: Is the knowledge of mass destruction the opposite of the knowledge of mass enlightenment?

Student: I don’t know.

Teacher: What if you were given the power to enlighten the masses of humanity or destroy humanity? Would you not be the most powerful person on earth?

Student: I can’t imagine how I could be more powerful.

Teacher: How would you choose to wield your power?

Student: I suppose I’d have to have many advisors helping me to make the right decisions in order to build a great society that was rich in culture and learned citizens.

Teacher: What if the citizens that you ruled rebelled? What if they chose to be independent of your power? What would you do then?

Student: But if I had the power to enlighten them, why would they rebel? They would be enlightened and, as a result, they would choose to live harmoniously.

Teacher: But some might not want to be enlightened. Perhaps they feel that they know what is best for their development and would resist an outside source, no matter how benevolent and wise.

Student: Then I would let them have their own way.

Teacher: Even if they killed themselves and behaved in decadence?

Student: I would try to teach them how to behave properly so they would learn to live harmoniously.

Teacher: Do you think they would listen?

Student: If they didn’t, I’d place the good and respectful people separate from those that were warring and cruel.

Teacher: I see. So you would divide your citizens into two groups?

Student: It would be the only way to bring harmony to some, if it couldn’t be brought to all.

Teacher: And if the warring and cruel citizens ultimately had children that desired to live in harmony, what would happen then?

Student: They would only need to ask and they could rejoin the society.

Teacher: So the citizens of your society would accept them without any problem and confer upon them the same social benefits that they themselves enjoy?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: And if they didn’t?

Student: I would have to order it – make it a law – I suppose. But again, if I had the power to enlighten my citizens, they surely would forgive those that were led astray by their parents, and let them re-enter the broader society.

Teacher: And what would be the result if one of these new citizens murdered someone within your enlightened society?

Student: They would be expelled and punished.

Teacher: Not enlightened?

Student: I would assume they were not able to be enlightened.

Teacher: So your power to enlighten was not perfect.

Student: I guess not.

Teacher: And what if the decadent society decided that the enlightened society should be conquered?

Student: Why would they attack if they knew I had the power to annihilate them?

Teacher: Perhaps they believed you didn’t actually possess the power, or if you did, that you would never use it.

Student: We would then have to defend ourselves and capture the decadent society’s leaders and lock them up until they changed their ways of thinking and acting.

Teacher: Then your power to destroy was not perfect either.

Student: Not in the same way I thought it was.

Teacher: You have answered these hypothetical questions wisely. Do you see how power complicates?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: Do you understand that having the power to enlighten or destroy is a type of power that most people consign to God?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: So I was asking you to play God, hypothetically.

Student: I understand, but how does that answer my question about gaining the knowledge of God?

Teacher: It may not. I simply wanted you to have a glimpse of the perspective of the human-imagined God.

Student: Why?

Teacher: If you want the knowledge of God, you must have some perspective on the position of a God.

Student: But I didn’t mean that I wanted to have the knowledge of the God that humans have created.

Teacher: It’s the only knowledge you can have.

Student: Why can’t I obtain the knowledge of the true God, First Source? Why isn’t there a technique that I can use to find and acquire this knowledge?

Teacher: Let’s return to our hypothetical scenario. Suppose that your power to destroy was simply a thought away. If you became angry, your power to destroy would be unleashed and the recipient of your anger would be obliterated.

Student: Would it work the same way for enlightenment? In other words, would I be able to enlighten with a simple thought?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: Okay.

Teacher: How many times a day do you have an angry thought and a thought to enlighten someone?

Student: I don’t know. On a good day, I don’t have any angry thoughts.

Teacher: On a bad day?

Student: Maybe three or four.

Teacher: Each time you have these thoughts, if you were angry with a person, your anger would harm the object of your rage.

Student: What about the other side of the coin. What if I were loving and kind, would my thoughts enlighten them as well?

Teacher: Precisely.

Student: So, with nothing but my thoughts, I can harm or help a person.

Teacher: Yes.

Student: Then wouldn’t it make sense that if I had the knowledge of God, I would also have the discipline to control my thoughts and emotions?

Teacher: No.

Student: Why?

Teacher: Because your dominant reality is that of a human being with all of its weaknesses and foibles. You are designed to have spontaneous thoughts and emotions. You have instincts that respond to stimuli, and you cannot control your natural thoughts or emotions. You can suppress them. You can ignore them. You can even extinguish them, but only for a period of time.

Student: And this is why I can’t have the knowledge of God?

Teacher: Correct.

Student: Then every human is sealed inside a world of limitation because they have this inability to control their impulses – be they thoughts or emotions? It seems unfair.

Teacher: Perhaps, but this same limitation is liberating.

Student: In what way?

Teacher: Do you know the will of First Source?

Student: No, but I think I have an idea of what is aligned with the will of God and what is not.

Teacher: If you truly know what is aligned and what it not, then you would need to know the will of First Source, would you not?

Student: I mean that I know the general direction or intention of God’s will.

Teacher: But not the details?

Student: Correct. I know that what is of love and light is aligned with the will of God, and what is of evil and darkness is not. But I might not be able to distinguish between the more subtle shades of light and darkness or good and evil.

Teacher: I see. And how did you arrive at this conclusion?

Student: It is what I have been taught.

Teacher: And who taught you this?

Student: My teachers, the books I’ve read. Everyone believes this don’t they?

Teacher: And because you have been taught that the will of God is knowable, you believe you can make the judgment that a loving act is aligned, but an evil act is not.

Student: Basically, yes.

Teacher: What if I suggested to you that understanding the will of God is one and the same as possessing the knowledge of God?

Student: I’m not sure that I understand what you mean.

Teacher: What do you think I mean? Make an effort to express your thoughts, no matter how murky they may be. Sometimes the fog lifts only when you struggle to see through it.

Student: I have the sense that you’re suggesting that if I understand what the creator desires from his creation, I would also understand a key component of the knowledge of God. In other words, in order to have the knowledge of God, I must know what God wants from me, what he desired me to become.

Teacher: And what do you think God wants you to become?

Student: Liberated.

Teacher: From limitation?

Student: Yes. Exactly.

Teacher: First Source desires that you live without limitation, but creates a soul carrier and a setting for that soul carrier to live within that is rooted in limitation. Why do think it is the will of God that you shrug off your limitations?

Student: Because if I have no limitations, I am liberated of the things that reduce my spiritual awareness.

Teacher: And what will you do then – when you are free of all limitation?

Student: I’m not exactly sure, but it will be blissful and likened to what Buddha called Nirvana – freedom from desire.

Teacher: Why would your Creator create you, set you in a soul carrier that was bound to a reality of limitation, construct an elaborate universe school to educate you, and commission a vast array of instructors, only to enable you to pass into Nirvana or a blissful state?

Student: I don’t know. That’s in part what I’m trying to understand.

Teacher: Are you sure?

Student: Well it’s certainly one of the things I’m trying to understand.

Teacher: If you’re trying to understand this, then answer my question.

Student: But I don’t know the answer.

Teacher: Try to articulate it as best you can.

Student: I agree it doesn’t make sense that God would have me educated in the ways of the universe and then leave me to simply enjoy it, but I don’t know what else I would do. No one paints this picture very clearly.

Teacher: The picture, as you put it, is found in the service to a plan. The plan is the collective unfolding of souls to realize the singular nature of universehood as an undivided process.

We move from neighborhoods to cities, to states, to nations, to continents, to hemispheres, to planets, to solar systems, to galaxies, to local universes, to superuniverses, to the Grand Multiverse – the all-encompassing structure of our collective unity.

And every step we emerge the victor of the lesser state of being in that our lives increasingly exemplify the presence of our collective perception of what is best for the evolutionary course set forth by First Source for the Grand Multiverse.

Student: Okay, so this is the reason? To simply be able to hold the perspective of what is best for the Grand Multiverse? How can I ever know such a thing?

Teacher: You cannot.

Student: So again, I’m frustrated in ignorance. This seems to be the theme of spiritual matters.

Teacher: It is only because you take the undivided process and leap to its end, wishing to bring it closer into your reality of now. Your patience is exceeded by your vision of what is to be.

Student: I know. But what can I do about it?

Teacher: Define the knowledge that you need to accomplish each step of your process. Don’t profess to need the knowledge of God before you have the knowledge of your earth world or the knowledge of your human instrument. Frame your knowledge in the context of your design.

Student: How do you mean that?

Teacher: You are a physical body with complex, emotional impulses and instincts; you are also a system of nerves and data collectors that feed your consciousness and brain. Moreover, you are a collective of consciousnesses that span your entire species and time. These elements comprise your human instrument.

Like most seekers, you try to understand the mysterious substance of your inmost spirit – the Wholeness Navigator – before you understand your human instrument. And even more to the point, you seek to understand the Creator and sustainer of the Wholeness Navigator before you understand your inmost spirit.

You have intuited the undivided process because it is stored within you, but if you stretch the reach of your understanding it is because you seek to know the stars before you know the planet upon which you stand. And I ask you, what good is the knowledge of the stars when your home is misunderstood?

Student: You’re saying that I need to study my body and mind before I study the soul?

Teacher: No, I’m saying the knowledge of God that you seek is contained in every step of the undivided process. It is not realized in some sudden, elusive revelatory experience at the end of your journey. It is found in every step along the way.

Student: Yes, I understand this in concept. I’ve heard this many times before, but I sense that you’re making a different distinction here.

Teacher: Perhaps. I’m only recommending that you understand the soul carrier before you seek to know the soul, and that you understand the soul before you seek to understand its creator. Otherwise, if you first channel your energy into understanding the Creator, you will see it marginally, and this partial knowledge will deform your understanding of the soul carrier and the soul within it.

Student: But how will I know that my understanding of the soul carrier is adequate so that I can embark on the understanding of my soul?

Teacher: The human instrument is an amazing composite of miraculous connections between the material and non-physical worlds. When you understand these connections, they will guide you to your understanding of the soul within you.

Student: So then I should really be asking you about how I can gain the knowledge of these connections. Is that correct?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: So how do I? Is it the chakras that are key?

Teacher: Much has been said and written about the energy centers that are revealed within the human instrument, but these energy centers are not the connections between the physical and non-physical realms.

What weaves together the physical body with the non-physical bodies is what we refer to as the phantom core.

Student: What is this composed of?

Teacher: The phantom core is not composed of anything material. It is like a shadow of soul consciousness that can move between the realms of the human instrument.

Student: So it can operate equally well within the mind and body?

Teacher: The phantom core is the consciousness that moves between the body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind at speeds greater than light. Yet it is a point of awareness that distributes the experiences of the human instrument to the soul.

Student: Does it embellish the experiences or simply report them like a recorder?

Teacher: It reports everything in extraordinary terms.

Student: How do you mean?

Teacher: Even in the quiet moments of your life when you are staring through a window or reading a book, there is a great universe of experience that is perceived by this phantom core, and every miniature detail is faithfully recorded and transmitted to the soul.

The phantom core is the super consciousness of the human instrument. It is separate from the soul, and is considered the soul’s emissary to the natural world in which the human instrument must interact.

It is through this awareness that soul experiences the natural world of limitation and separation, drawing in the experiences that help it to build appreciation for the Grand Multiverse that is the garment of First Source.

Student: Why have I never heard of this before?

Teacher: Who should tell you?

Student: You, for one.

Teacher: I just did, were you not listening?

Student: Yes, but I’ve been your student for two years and this is the first I’ve heard of this phantom core. Why?

Teacher: We teach through association and metaphor. You have been taught about the phantom core, you just haven’t heard its name before now. And now that you have its name, it crystallizes in your mind a clearer picture of its design and purpose.

Student: But two years it takes for me to know its name?

Teacher: For some it is two hours for some it a lifetime. It depends on the person and how they arrive at their answers. You sought the unknowable before you sought what is to be known in your present life – where your consciousness resides now.

Student: Okay, we’ve established that I’m a dreamer –

Teacher: There’s nothing wrong with seeking the unknowable. I am not suggesting that you have wasted your time in the pursuit of a dream.

Student: But it seems that I need to place more time in understanding this phantom core. What do you recommend I learn in this regard?

Teacher: Learn all that you can about the human body, emotions, and mind. Make it the focus of your study for a period of time – perhaps a year or two, depending on the availability of your time.

As you do this, take notes about the features of the human instrument that either seem connected or anomalous. For example, the brain is dominated by the data received from the eyes. Why do the eyes not dominate consciousness?

As you produce your notes, organized around connections and anomalous phenomenon, begin to define the structure of the human instrument as one would if they were making a map of the interaction between the body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind. Remember that the phantom core is the shadow of the soul and operates seamlessly between the folds of the human instrument. It is the first perceiver and transmitter of the experience that consumes the human instrument of a specific individuality. It is the continuity of the undivided process within the material realms, while the soul is the continuity of the undivided process within the non-physical realms.

Student: And what about the Wholeness Navigator?

Teacher: It is the bridge of continuity between these two worlds. The Wholeness Navigator is the interlock between the worlds of time and the worlds of non-time. It is the fusion of the soul and the phantom core, integrating this vast experiential storehouse of data, and making it coherent as a force of transformation.

Student: It will take me a long time to create this picture and understand the connections.

Teacher: It will take you a lifetime, if you are fortunate. However, if you set forth upon the path of First Source without first understanding the fundamental structures within which your soul operates, you will pursue a mirage. God will appear and disappear, and doubt will shake you every time a new occurrence crosses your path. It will seem that all is impermanent, even the face of God.

Student: You said a moment ago that the Wholeness Navigator uses the experiences of the soul carrier and soul as a force of transformation. Transformation of whom and for what purpose?

Teacher: The transformation is of the individual personality – the God-fragment that sojourns in both the worlds of time and non-time, and is devoted to the One Plan that embraces all forms, personalities, and opinions therein. This personality is the identity that endures the shape shifting of forms and the ceaseless churning of time to become a conscious extension of the One Plan.

The purpose of this transformation is to explore the Grand Multiverse as emissaries of First Source, creating new opportunities for the expansion and ongoing evolution of the One Plan.

Student: I suspect you purposely gave me an abstract answer as a way of reminding me of the task ahead.

Teacher: I gave you what is available to be given. Words themselves are an abstraction, are they not?

Student: If you don’t mind, I want to return to my task: studying the human instrument. Is there a model I can use so I can compare my approach with others?

Teacher: There may be some who would gladly share their research and findings. I would encourage you to collaborate with your fellow students. It is a very useful practice.

Student: You spoke of connections in the human instrument and anomalous phenomenon. Can you please elaborate on these?

Teacher: The connections of the human instrument are the threads that make up the fabric of the phantom core. These threads weave together the pathways between the physical body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind. Within each of these are sub-layers, just as the skin of the human body is different than the nervous system, which is different than the skeletal structure.

The body is therefore made up of many layers and sub-components that comprise the total structure. This is equally true for the emotions, mind, and genetic mind.

The connections between these layers or strata of the human instrument, which number 24 primary systems, each originate from the Wholeness Navigator. In other words, these threads have a common ground and spiral out touching each of the 24 primary systems, binding them together in a holistic system.

Student: What are the 24 systems? Do I know them?

Teacher: It is not important to recognize each of them individually. Some have not been discovered in the world of time and space. I only mention the number so that you can know the depth of the human instrument and its impeccable and miraculous structure.

Student: Why is this so important?

Teacher: The human instrument is regarded by most cultures as a body that is vulnerable and fragile. It is considered flawed and imperfect because it degenerates over time and is susceptible to disease. In some areas, it is considered nothing more than an animate object for the sensing of pleasure or pain. It is held in low regard, and even those who feel a spiritual imperative, regard it as the lesser or lower self.

Student: But it is the lower self isn’t it?

Teacher: It is the vessel of the transcendent soul. When you see a vessel of beauty, do you wonder what is inside it?

Student: I guess when I see a beautiful vessel – like a work of art – I assume the vessel is for appreciation, not utility.

Teacher: It doesn’t require a utilitarian function because its beauty is sufficient a purpose. Correct?

Student: Exactly.

Teacher: The human instrument is the same way. It is a beautifully conceived creation; so much so that most believe it is empty. Its purpose is in itself. They do not see the 24 strata, they perceive only the five dominant strata: skin, muscle, bones, emotions, and mind.

Student: Why? Why do we only see these five and not the whole 24?

Teacher: You are taught these perceptions by your educational indoctrination and society as a whole, and conversely, you are not taught to appreciate and understand the other 19 strata. In most cases, these strata require more vigilance and persistence to understand and appreciate.

Student: So how do I learn about the other dimensions of the human instrument?

Teacher: You study the human instrument. You study the body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind. You learn to understand this sacred vessel for what it truly is: the exploratory, albeit temporary, vehicle of your inmost, immortal consciousness in the worlds of time and space.

Student: But if you gave me information about the 24 strata, wouldn’t it help me in my studies?

Teacher: Perhaps, but it is not necessary to understand all of these levels with the human mind. And here again, you seek to know the staircase before you understand the first few steps. It is the function of time to make the staircase comprehensible in steps, not singular revelations.

Student: I understand.

Teacher: I have highlighted the universal path; now tell me what you have learned.

Student: Okay, I’ll do my best. The phantom core connects the 24 levels of the human instrument, and is the observing consciousness of the worlds of time and space for the human soul. The phantom core has multiple threads, for lack of a better description, that weave these 24 levels together, and it uses these connective threads like pathways to move – as a consciousness – from one level to the next at quantum speeds. It then passes this experiential information to the soul, which then processes this incoming data in order to evolve its understanding of how to align with the One Plan and increasingly bring light to the darker outposts of the Grand Multiverse.

Teacher: Take a deep breath. You have listened well.

Student: Did I get it right?

Teacher: Are you concerned about being right or are you interested in learning?

Student: Are they so different?

Teacher: They can be polar opposites.

Student: I’m interested in learning and being right.

Teacher: You asked me at the beginning of this dialogue, as to whether there is a technique to gain the knowledge of God. Do you remember?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: And have you discovered your answer?

Student: No. I don’t think there is an answer.

Teacher: Perhaps there’s an answer, but it is different for every human. All beings approach their creator in a unique path that has never been navigated before. If you stitched together the vast reservoir of your experience in the worlds of time and space, do you think it has ever been replicated?

Student: I don’t know. I’ve never thought about it before. Perhaps at a basic level it has.

Teacher: Only if you grossly simplified it would you see any similarity in the paths of the ascending souls to their Creator’s realm. Truthfully, we are each as unique as the planets that number the Grand Universe, and it is precisely this uniqueness that prevents a universal technique from ever becoming the magical pill of enlightenment.

Student: I understand this. Was this done as part of the design?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: I guess the real question is what knowledge is required in order to construct my own techniques for gaining the awareness of my own, multi-layered self?

Teacher: You are on your way if it is your practice to make this inquiry every morning that you arise, and you feel yourself a magnet attracting this very knowledge into your life through every facet of your experience.

Student: Does it help if I believe that the phantom core is present within me and absorbing this knowledge even if my conscious mind is not?

Teacher: It does and it is.

Student: I am grateful.

Teacher: You are most welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:28 am 
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The plan is the collective unfolding of souls to realize the singular nature of universehood as an undivided process.

We move from neighborhoods to cities, to states, to nations, to continents, to hemispheres, to planets, to solar systems, to galaxies, to local universes, to superuniverses, to the Grand Multiverse – the all-encompassing structure of our collective unity.

And every step we emerge the victor of the lesser state of being in that our lives increasingly exemplify the presence of our collective perception of what is best for the evolutionary course set forth by First Source for the Grand Multiverse.


So much to learn.....or is it just a matter of not learning something new but just remembering that as a fragment of First Source imbued with ITS capabilities......all we have to do....is give up the notion that collective we as humanity is in charge of our lives....that were never ours ...humanity to begin with..


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:45 am 
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First Source first......in all we say and do.....and does not most everyone here fall short of this goal.....which is .......The transformation is of the individual personality – the God-fragment that sojourns in both the worlds of time and non-time, and is devoted to the One Plan that embraces all forms, personalities, and opinions therein. This personality is the identity that endures the shape shifting of forms and the ceaseless churning of time to become a conscious extension of the One Plan. .....and the reason we fall short is because.....we do not spend enough time in the 24 Chambers.... which will help us get past our dominant here in a physical body reality which is that of a human being with all of its weaknesses and foibles.


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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:40 am 
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"There are forces that truly believe in good and evil. In their view, countries – like people – are essentially cast into three categories: good, neutral, and evil. Those that are good must dominate the world political structures and ensure that those that are evil are identified and reduced to a non-threat status.”
(Dr. Neruda Interview #4)


"The nurturance of life is the principle that an individual is in alignment with the natural expansion of intelligence inherent within all life. This is an alignment that enhances the life- energy that flows past the individual with the clear intent of gentle support. It is the action of identifying the highest motive in all energy forms and supporting the flow of this energy towards its ultimate expression. In so doing, the action is performed without judgment, analysis, or attachment to outcome. It is simply nurturing the energy that flows from all manifestations and supporting its expression of life.

This is a departure from the normal perception that nurturing support can only be granted when energy is in alignment with personal will. However, when the individual can view life as an integrated energy flowing in the expression of expanding intelligence, life is honored as an extension of First Source. In this context, there is no energy that is misdirected or unworthy of support and nurturance. While this may seem contrary to the evidence of abusive energy upon terra-earth, even energy that is laden with "evil intent" is nevertheless energy that is flowing outward in search of a higher expression." ( WM Philosophy 1)



When we truly understand that First Source is equally present in all life and that this presence represents our true identity, attention shifts from quelling survival fears, to the nurturance of all life.

If an ignorance of FS equality is the only 'evil' that exists, this ignorance is not vilified, it is forgiven.

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:45 pm 
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starduster wrote:
I know that this is a hard concept to grasp in the short time you have been here, but the FACTS remain plain for any and all to see ... If Nat and Watcher were contributing their perspectives of the WMMs ...this discussion would not be taking place ... but the fact remains, that we are discussing NAT and not the Wmms


We are discussing them because you, starduster, have chosen to protest, at every opportunity, their presence and contributions on this forum.

Quote:
Nat isn't even a member of this forum ... can you comprehend that ? HE ISN"T A MEMBER OF THIS FORUM ... it is a black hole that is trying to move into the WMF


It is you who are in denial of the clear and simple fact that hidelight (aka Nat, aka Christophe, aka CV) is a member of this forum. His account has not been deleted. He is here.

I don't think the forum is in any great danger of being sucked into a black hole of ignorance. But thank you for your concern.

Quote:
If you are not willing to stand up to him - I will, because, honestly I am sick an tired of the disruptions that he causes (not to mention the broadband that he has wasted) - it is an injustice to us all when he becomes the topic of discussion... in every topic in the forum ... obviously this is something that needs to be dealt with ... immediately (no matter how long it takes) - so that it will not continue to disrupt the forum - so we will all become aware of Nat's agenda (before it takes roots again) ... which is to attract all the attention he can to himself ... and to take that energy and feed the HMS until it overwhelms the WMF with its need for polarity.


Yes, but who is it that makes him the topic of discussion? It is you. :lol:

Quote:
I do not understand how encouraging someone to disrespect the purpose of this forum is being "a responsible member" ... you are encouraging him to continue his campaign to discuss anything BUT the Wmms ... because that is all he discusses ... that is all he has ever discussed - his personal BS as if it were even vaguely related to the Wmms .


I discern that each of us is connected to the materials in his or her own unique way and offers a perspective and interpretation that has value.

"Teacher: If you define too narrowly what actions and activities constitute spiritual behavior, you will become not only a judge of yourself but all others as well. You unwittingly close down your interface zone..."

Quote:
he doesn't have a perspective of the WMMs ... he has never read them or experienced them ... and that is why he doesn't discuss them - he can't because he doesn't know what he is talking about, much less why he is here.... other than this is a place where dumping one's BS is encouraged by newbies like you.


Allowing, not encouraging.

You claim that he has never read or experienced the WMMs. This is quite simply not true, as one can discern for themselves by reading his posts with an attentive and open mind. I have also watched a couple of his YouTube vids, and although they don't resonate with me personally, in one of them he reads aloud one of the Chamber poems, proving that he has indeed read at least some of the materials. Your accusation is unfounded.

It may be an advantage to be a "newbie." My perceptions of forum members are not burdened with past history, as yours seem to be.

Once again I refer you to the 4-step emotional clearing practice offered in the WMMs known as Lyricus Discourse 6.

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:29 pm 
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I don't read them from the screen or paper, you cannot speak them if you don't know the slightest curvature by heart.

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:35 pm 
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Underneath the masks is the face of truth.
Practicing is the doing preparation for being. Being is accomplishing what the practice has intended.

If 'the members' - those referred to as 'we' - are unable to focus on their 'discussions' of the 'wingmakers materials' due to the 'interruptions' which 'distract them' from the 'intentions' of the 'forums' then I suggest that 'they' use this opportunity to practice doing.

There is no evidence to support the continued complaint regarding disruption. I am not suggesting that 'disruption' on a minor level isn't occurring but I cannot see where disruption on a major level is happening to the degree where 'we' cannot contribute our individual focus into the whole, regarding this medium device:

Sovereign Integral awareness understands that there are 'issues' and 'potential disruptions' within this medium as there certainly are in the medium of life outside going on around us.
Image
Sovereign Integral awareness acknowledges and integrates the awareness into acceptance and thus extinguishes the aspect of 'disruption' - practical practice - the opportunity affords itself within this message board interaction very effectively due to its minimal moderation. A gift of opportunity to practice not being 'disrupted'.

To the two most vocal complainants regarding the 'disruption' it can be verified that the percentage of their contributions to this forum involve - not 'discussing' the 'materials' at all, but making complaint that the materials cannot be discussed until the 'offenders' are removed, remove themselves or silence their offending and 'become' that version of 'Sovereign Integral' which cannot discuss the materials while disruption is occurring.

The months and years go by, and the complaints become machine like in their repetitiveness.

The complaint is the mask, and what the complaint masks are the complainants own attempts at 'disruption' either through the device of repetitive wording, or over the top machine like postings which happened more recently throughout the forum by one of those two consistent in this behavior - to disrupt potential flow of interaction...and using the very materials which are available for discussion - in SPAM fashion. (!)

It is an interesting 'ploy' which is worth ignoring in the sense that the viel regarding it is flung aside by Sovereign Integral awareness which is not about 'uncovering ploy' but rather in realising the nature of the ploy and declining (IGNORing) the invitation to allow it to disrupt.

I understand that if Carolyn and Deborah (and the silent invisible 'we' they speak on behalf of) who are 'unable to use the forum for its 'intended purpose'' were really practicing they would see the opportunity not to let anything they perceive as 'distraction' actually distract them from that stated purpose.

Of course, in doing so, all 'concerned' would have to let go their 'belief' that they are consistently complaining by actively engaging the Valor aspect of the 6HVs because what is truthfully happening is that they are using this statement as a means of continuing to justify their attempt to disrupt in this most sneaky manner.

This appears to be what those they are complaining about - those they claim are 'disruptive' - are practicing, and in fairness it is only right to let one and all know that 'we' are aware of of this sneakiness and see right through the charade...and in general prefer to IGNORE the invitation to become embroiled through any 'self defense' reaction.

I don't condemn 'sneakiness' nor do I remain totally silent about it when it becomes so obviously transparent...and neither would I focus on making it the focus of my contribution and repeatably blah on about it, because then I would be contributing to the disruption it manifests, and my focus is on Lyricus Information as a WHOLE rather than parts of it which might 'resonate' more than other parts of it.

Certainly what has been released to date is enough to keep me from being distracted yes?

I think so - I know so - I practice so - I do so -

Sneakiness aside, I appreciate every member who makes an effort to contribute in their own way, even those who complain the most.
Image

Also - I have been occupied on a little project which is proving quiet a helpful asset to 'me' and 'others' which I know is appreciated. I have no sides to choose, either in this forum membership or in the life outside all around me and understand that this as an aspect of Sovereign Integral Perspective, and is not easily understood or appreciated coming from the learned perspective of the duality of 'us and them' syndrome.

In closing (bell sound)

I understand I have shared my own perspective of the thread topic - which is now 5 pages long...I have articulated my understanding into the mix and am content to leave it at that and let others 'discuss' further as they will. I have 'greater things' worthy of my attention focus and support....hereabouts.

Love Ya'll

William Billy Bill Willy

Wonderful...

...Anything you want to add my friend?




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♥ "Let your universe be the altar upon which the consciousness of Spirit can descend."~James~
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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:14 am 
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why limit yourself Watcher, why would you say "and this is the last I have to say about that" ...

be honest and admit that you learned something in this topic ... you thought "ignorance" meant low IQ or something ... you didn't know it was something that people use to resist awareness ... by thinking Ignorance isn't a choice ... but it IS ...

when you chose to become a member of the WMF, even if you didn't read the welcome from the admin, anyone can see the format ...is designed specifically to discuss the Wmms

to ignore that, and then to ignore the fact that this forum was created to serve a purpose - isn't Ignorance, when you willfully resist that awareness ... its Evil.


Individuals who have used the materials, and who have trigger their transformation - and who are experiencing a Wholeness Perspective - don't ignore/reject anything Watcher ... to point out a distraction, is not a complaint because I was distracted - it is dealing with an injustice - with Love Haven't you noticed, that those who express Valor to the best of their abilities, aren't distracted from why they are here - because they add quotes from the Wmms to their expression of Valor - ie they are STILL focused on the Wmms, and haven't been distracted at all by practicing what they have learned ... and are sharing this new intelligence/compassion at the same time

William, you are a unique individual, who obviously resonates to the frequencies embedded in these materials ... but you made a choice - to listen to the Annunaki

The Annunaki are not our Creators - as much as they would love for us to believe that, Consciousness is not created - it is extended like an out reached hand into your core - First Source is a part of you - the Annunaki may be able to transport souls for a brief period of time, and create HIs, and to genetically manipulate us ... but they can not alter the Plan of First Source - and they were part of the plan, for a while but that stage of the plan is over now ... this is the part of the plan where individuals, one person at a time, quits participating in the deception ... quits ignoring ... quits resisting awareness and quits supporting a system that no longer serves a purpose

if you don't like being reminded of the guideline, or why some of us joined this forum, or having Valor practiced on you - then try doing what you signed up to do - and quit being distracted by your self - if you were discussing the Wmms, instead of your self-limited by lack of experience, understanding of them - this SELF-CREATED issue wouldn't exist

it has always been your choice - and you have always chosen to ignore most of the materials - and discuss other things, as if they were more important ... what did you expect?

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:35 am 
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viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2187&p=87300&hilit=ploy#p87300

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:38 am 
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As usual Bill you have twisted things to suit your own purpose in distracting and diversions for your your abject need of control on this forum which you truly think you are the master of because you in your delusion think you started it. Many, many are who wanted it and thanks to the sensitivity and astuteness and FUNDS , MARK HEMPEL started the first forum and ERNEST(SOLARIS) this one and how much in FUNDS have you contributed to either? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:40 am 
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The most we get from you Billy Willy Nilly is your big fat ego. Bwahaaaaaaaaaaaa!

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:41 am 
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Go ahead, you can call me evil if you like. :D

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:42 am 
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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:43 am 
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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:23 am 
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here's the dealio Watcher ... it doesn't matter if you listen to the WM's music for five years straight or hang out in the formbula (as Moonz called it) for a decade
or if you memorize the entire interview between Mark and James
or if you have read the FS Transmissions a thousand time ...

unless you integrate these practices with the process laid out in the materials as intended ... the only thing that will be transformed is your mind with this new intelligence it has received ... and granted, that the Entity who is limited to the HI's Perspective IS somewhat enhanced by this new intelligence - for certain the Soul is taking it all in, but without the HI's "go ahead" the Entity is limited to the HI's HMS ...and that's the prison, Watcher, the one that suppresses the Entity's Consciousness - the Mind is the prison and anyone who chooses to remain in a fragmented state of consciousness, even after they are told, they don't have to are in that prison .


it is just like any other formula ... you must follow it -exactly, to get the expected results ... the techniques can be modified and personalized and you can set your own pace, but as promised when followed - the formula for restoring one's consciousness (Wmms) is going to accelerate your personal progress beyond evolutionary constraints.... and if you are not prepared to follow this process as intended, any results you believe you may have gotten from your shopping cart mentality are simply figments of your imagination another room in the prison that you created, to help you believe that you are free... because you can believe anything you please - you can believe that you are a Sovereign Integral ... or like Nat, you can believe that you are First Source and can read everyone's minds ... but it isn't true - even if you manifest it, it will not be aligned with Universal truth - because it is of YOUR mind, which is unique - it can not be duplicated because it only exists in your mind.

the Entity has limited its perspective, to the HI - the HI has three systems that contribute to its wholeness, the Mind (and heart) the Emotional and the Physical - it has no Consciousness - that has been fragmented ... all it knows is what its three systems were created to receive and transmit to the MIND - the only way to get beyond the HMS is to transform your Self - so that the HMS of the HI is aware of the Entity ... as suggested in one of the very first "techniques" called the Journey to Self ... that's where you begin, by discovering YOUR SELF - nothing ever written or discovered has ever revealed the individual's Consciousness except for a transformation of the Entity's state of consciousness ... and you can believe that - or not - your beliefs have no influence on the truth ... at the most they only reveal your Ignorance

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:39 pm 
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The 'formula' isn't working for you Carollynn...
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2187&p=87644#p87644

See?

The evidence suggests that either the 'formula' is faulty, or your understanding of the 'formula' is faulty.

Or that there is no 'formula' but that you would insist that there is and this distracts you, which also potentially could distract others.

For certainly one who has 'walked the path' surely is able to 'make a map' - which is to say - share the experience.
Your insistence that their is only one formula is so literal as to be unusable.


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So to simplify your own truth you need to have a framework from which your beliefs arise. The framework of Lyricus is to live a love-centered life by expressing the six heart virtues to all within your local universe. ~James

This is the result of a formula of genuine practice. THIS is what being a portal signifies. You can hang pictures on your wall, recite incantations, have blissful experiences, be mystified by invisible floating objects captured on camera, become self sufficient and detached...yet still be in IGNORANCE to what a love centered life IS, because it is in the DOING that this becomes apparent.

In in DOING, their is not the single necessity to believe you can ever be distracted by anything external whatsoever, under any circumstance.

LIVE a love centered life - all that is required is the will to do so.

The 'formula' for this is quiet fully explained in the Mark and James Interviews.

Some useful links can be found here::
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2223


This topic is ignorant I have come to notice, and has become something obviously created to practice that habit of calling others ignorant - certainly a purpose grounded in ignorance itself.
Perhaps then, this is what ignorance is?


"The danger of ignorance is only in believing you're not ignorant. If you know that you lack insight into the inner dimensions of how things work, you know that you have blind spots. You can keep a wary eye open for any advantage that enables a deeper insight or more profound sense of meaning. You have to learn to live with incompleteness and use it as a motivating force rather than a point of desperation or indifference." ~ Neruda 3rd Interview




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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:55 pm 
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The Watcher wrote:
ANSWER 9
The primary concern ...


Q: Who's concern?
A: Those who are concerned -such as Lyricus )


...in the universe is not evil, but ignorance.


Evil is a human developed concept. The evil that humans do is done in ignorance (Forgive them father they know not what they do).
Ignorance is not evil and evil is not ignorance.

Ignorance which develops in outward expression is often referred to as 'evil'

If ignorance was evil, then we are all evil, even First Source, who is exploring Its Creation (we are) through quiet a variety of instruments of exploration.


In my deepest light I created you from my desire to understand my universe. ~First Source~

When members of a species are in ignorance of their identity as an individuated consciousness, they are more easily manipulated and seduced by the temporal illusions of MEST (matter, energy, space, time).

Thus the actions will always mirror the ignorance and the results are oft labeled 'evil' which is not real in the sense that 'evil' is the opposing force of good in the duelists world understanding...and duality is not real in the way it interprets what IS.

...to simply replace the word 'evil' with the word 'ignorance' in order to label others more politely is pointless- if one thinks ignorance is evil, then calling others ignorant is a deceptive way of calling them evil - might as well just call them evil.

:wink:


The MEST universe is the most exterial view of the multiverse, and those who identify with it as their true home are living in ignorance.

This is meaningful and holds a purpose - indeed, when one is aware of their 'true home' it moves them away from the behavior of ignorance - they begin to behave as if they are their own true home, wherever that might 'be'.

Having said that, there will be Lyricus Information regarding 'what true home is' - everywhere else, we are emissaries. to that.


You are my emissaries ~First Source ~

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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:58 pm 
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The Watcher wrote:
The ignorance that Lyricus is concerned with has to do with individuals unaware of their True nature - who they really are, not who they think they are, as in:

... you think yourself the product of an ape. You are so much more than you realize.

Lyricus never varies from the focus and intention of their assertion throughout the information as to 'what we are' as the contrast to the shadow of what we individually think ourselves as being, under the tuition of information which hides, distorts, insinuates or is simply accepted without question.




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 Post subject: Re: IGNOREance the only Evil that exists
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:59 pm 
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The Watcher wrote:
Simplification yes
6HVs = Universe relationship through gratitude + Observance of Source in all things + Nurturance of life = "Love they neighbor as thyself" = Love God = Equality with First Source.

Simple.

Practical.

Enduring.

Undebatable.


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Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum


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