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 Post subject: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:58 pm 
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Forgiveness is suppose to be a key to happiness and loving ourself right but why is it hard to forgive at times?


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:27 pm 
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Comet wrote:
Forgiveness is suppose to be a key to happiness and loving ourself right but why is it hard to forgive at times?

If we put the question to ourselves, and don't expect others to answer so we have a nice discussion, but really try to understand, why is there the conflict to forgive in the first place? For if we would understand that, maybe there would be nothing to forgive, not because this is a nice thing to say, but simply because it is so: there is no conflict. Only then there is nothing to forgive; it is the conflict that must be forgiven. When you need to forgive, it is really your own conflict. When you evaluate how to relate to another so that forgiveness can solve the situation, it really means you have not forgiven your own conflict. But you see, we call such an evaluation wisdom, while it is blindness really to the reality of the situation. We evaluate it and then formulate a solution, which is the blindness, and then call this continuity of the conflict the resolution of the conflict, which is really already the creation of another situation that will prove the existence of the conflict. In reality, the conflict has never disappeared and nothing was forgiven. We looked and suddenly we thought there was nothing to forgive because we had found the solution, but it was an illusion. We are so quick to accept solutions that are no solutions; they are no real solutions at all, even temporarily. You meet someone who seems an intelligent person to you and the first thing they tell you, you believe, you fall for their own form of blindness, add more blind spots to your situation that becomes more and more complex. Give me one easy remedy to one very hard disease. And then one comes with their conflict and tell you there is nothing to forgive and you will fall for it, because they seem so sweet, but they are all in this perpetual conflict with themselves or another. This is our human condition. You are looking for a solution, or even worse you are not really.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:52 pm 
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excuse me, Nathan, but Forgiveness is one of the Heart's virtues, and perhaps some who are not as enlightened as you claim to be, may understand its importance...

The ability to forgive, not only one's self, but others, has a great deal of value, which your perception ignores, when it asserts, there "noting to forgive"... you might want to examine how much forgiveness enhances our lives on a daily basis...and quit belittling it... when you count on it everyday to assist you to progress though the unknown.

IMO the ego's misunderstanding, is what makes it hard to forgive...it does not recognize equality because it is self-centered.

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:46 am 
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Comet wrote:
Forgiveness is suppose to be a key to happiness and loving ourself right but why is it hard to forgive at times?


I have found that many can forgive anyone and everyone but themselves. The hard part is self-forgiveness. Truly hard. And you are right, it is crucial to loving ourselves IMHO. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:23 am 
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7:2:5 wrote:
Comet wrote:
Forgiveness is suppose to be a key to happiness and loving ourself right but why is it hard to forgive at times?


I have found that many can forgive anyone and everyone but themselves. The hard part is self-forgiveness. Truly hard. And you are right, it is crucial to loving ourselves IMHO. :)


I agree especially when you've hurt a dear friend that is taking time to forgive there! Getting there :D

Why is it we always hurt the people closest to us? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:07 am 
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Yes, the closest to us, because you can't hide your conflict so easily. To others you can pretend, or those close to you may see a lot more. But why is it difficult to forgive? What I have found, is that you keep repeating your same mistakes; and some even to say on that, there are no mistakes! So, denial becomes "forgiveness". Yesterday a girl came to me about her mother who couldn't forgive. She was always far too upset with her daughter. They don't seem to be able to forgive one another. Why is this so difficult? Is it because we have never really known what love is? To mistake love for self-love. You may love yourself or hate yourself, it is really much the same thing. Only true love is completely different. If you love, your forgiveness will be very powerful; not just something you do to turn your back the next moment. Forgiveness is the immense, persisting power of compassion and true humility, that is so transformative. It is not a small thing to solve some problem.

Quote:
There is no shame in making a mistake. All of you seem to take it so personally when you do make a mistake. You get angry with yourselves, worry about what others will say, etc. What a waste of energy! Instead of giving it no energy, as the US President did, admitting his mistake and moving on, most of humanity keep themselves imprisoned by their wrongs. Forgiveness is the most important energy in the world, yet so many of you cannot forgive yourselves for making the wrong choices – or mistakes if that word must be used.

There are no mistakes, only lessons learned from the experience. There should be no shame that one made a wrong choice. This happens every day on the earth plane. Millions make choices which sometimes are not good. But whether good or bad, they are ALL learning experiences. It is a very highly evolved soul who can forgive another, but an even bigger soul who can forgive oneself. Sometimes the choices one makes hurt another (another source of flagellation of the self). You cannot go back and change anything; nothing can be done to return it to what it was. If this happens, allow yourself forgiveness and move on. So much time and energy is wasted punishing oneself for what one has done.

http://www.maitreya-edu.org/news_letters/news_letter_220.php

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:54 am 
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Comet wrote:
7:2:5 wrote:
Comet wrote:
Forgiveness is suppose to be a key to happiness and loving ourself right but why is it hard to forgive at times?


I have found that many can forgive anyone and everyone but themselves. The hard part is self-forgiveness. Truly hard. And you are right, it is crucial to loving ourselves IMHO. :)


I agree especially when you've hurt a dear friend that is taking time to forgive there! Getting there :D

Why is it we always hurt the people closest to us? :?


Who can answer that question better than you? Aren't you who you are closest too? This is the short answer. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:19 am 
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starduster wrote:
excuse me, Nathan, but Forgiveness is one of the Heart's virtues, and perhaps some who are not as enlightened as you claim to be, may understand its importance...

The ability to forgive, not only one's self, but others, has a great deal of value, which your perception ignores, when it asserts, there "noting to forgive"... you might want to examine how much forgiveness enhances our lives on a daily basis...and quit belittling it... when you count on it everyday to assist you to progress though the unknown.

IMO the ego's misunderstanding, is what makes it hard to forgive...it does not recognize equality because it is self-centered.


Exactly starduster the egos misunderstandings is the hardest to forgive! Misunderstandings are usually cause cause of that! Its an easy fix but so many people are scared to fix them this is my weakness too i don't like leaving things left unresolved or hanging i need alittle more security than that when it comes to relationships.

Thanks stardust ya helped me alittle here :D


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:45 am 
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Quote:

Who can answer that question better than you? Aren't you who you are closest too? This is the short answer. :wink:


Not exactly what i mean lol but ya got a point :wink: :D


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Comet wrote:
starduster wrote:
excuse me, Nathan, but Forgiveness is one of the Heart's virtues, and perhaps some who are not as enlightened as you claim to be, may understand its importance...

The ability to forgive, not only one's self, but others, has a great deal of value, which your perception ignores, when it asserts, there "noting to forgive"... you might want to examine how much forgiveness enhances our lives on a daily basis...and quit belittling it... when you count on it everyday to assist you to progress though the unknown.

IMO the ego's misunderstanding, is what makes it hard to forgive...it does not recognize equality because it is self-centered.


Exactly starduster the egos misunderstandings is the hardest to forgive! Misunderstandings are usually cause cause of that! Its an easy fix but so many people are scared to fix them this is my weakness too i don't like leaving things left unresolved or hanging i need alittle more security than that when it comes to relationships.

Thanks stardust ya helped me alittle here :D

It is the ego's misunderstanding that makes it possible to forgive, necessary. But it is not really so hard to forgive. It is hard only because it has not yet been actually done. This is the distinction I am making. You can think that you forgive. Above the page, I have explained it a little closer. Greetings, cv

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:37 pm 
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the ego serves a purpose, and is not to be faulted, but refined...it is the ego that assumes the responsibility of its individuality and determines what is genuine and authentic "forgiveness" and how that virtue benefits its Self. Once it is no longer centered on self, and recognizes it is part of a global community, it can serve both the individual and the species.

the ego automatically follows a "program" that you establish... this program, can be upgraded, "expanded and enhanced". When it is rerouted to recieve data via the Heart's intelligence this program runs far more efficiently.

There is a suggested technique, found in the 6th Lyricus Discourse, ( http://www.wingmakers.com/lyricus6.html ) that explains how one may make this adjustment to the incoming energy, and overwrite the program of the ego, for optimal performance. It allows the ego to be less defensive, and self centered...and this upgrade to the "Intuitive" intelligence allows forgiveness to flow freely without thought, instantly. :D

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:55 pm 
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True forgiveness is the state of quantum awareness where everything is as it 'should be' right now. This is not a state of denial. In quantum reality nothing is hidden, all is revealed. Love looks at everything in its true state of wholeness. It observes ALL that is present. Love is all that is. True forgiveness is timeless, "it is the clear intelligence of emotional support unhindered by histories, memories, expectations, or judgments." (EH)

"First of all, the multiverse is in perfection and every sphere of the human
self is part of this perfection despite how it may appear in the human domain. If you
could walk up to anyone and peer into the sphere of their local multiverse—at the
quantum level—you would see its perfection because time is not part of the quantum
dimension and it is only time that separates the perfection of the multiverse from the
human self. To me, all of your struggles to know your Quantum Presence, to understand
your purpose, to feel an unshakable connection to your Creator, these are all in the past.

Do you understand?"

(James interview-3)"


"I am talking about the ultimate creativity—creating new perceptions of your reality. When you view your reality through the prism of your energetic heart, your reality will shift in the direction that humanity itself is shifting. In other words, there is an alignment between your view of reality and the future reality of humanity." (EH)

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:01 pm 
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LOL I'm sure you'll answer the question Comet if you haven't already. Isn't that how it always is, we ask then various opinions are given some appropriate, others not and we just pick and choose what we most resonate with. Rather efficient huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Comet wrote:
7:2:5 wrote:
Comet wrote:
Forgiveness is suppose to be a key to happiness and loving ourself right but why is it hard to forgive at times?


I have found that many can forgive anyone and everyone but themselves. The hard part is self-forgiveness. Truly hard. And you are right, it is crucial to loving ourselves IMHO. :)


I agree especially when you've hurt a dear friend that is taking time to forgive there! Getting there :D
Why is it we always hurt the people closest to us? :?


If it is okay, I want to share a bit. I believe it's about the intent. If you found yourself intentionally harming another - it can take ages and lifetimes to 'own' that intent and then still forgive yourself. Awareness of all the variables can be especially challenging. Especially the ones that led to your choice. We have to own our choices, our behavior and realize that we probably made the best of it at the time. Maybe the outcome was so very different than what was hoped, but we still have to own it and face it. Sometimes, we have to offer ourselves the most compassion and understanding to get beyond that shame. We have to be humble to ourselves. Then the true work begins. Within to manifest without.

But I will tell you something wonderful about self-forgiveness, if you can truly, genuinely, sincerely come from a place of deep love - there is a very beautiful transmutation and transformation that can happen. You might not see the results immediately in your 'local universe', but you will feel it with your 'energetic heart' as it increases in its sensitivity. Those who are connected to your 'web' might not even be aware of what is happening, but I can guarantee that at some place and point in time - it will come to a peaceful place. And perhaps even an opportunity to reconcile, move forward and love on a deeper level - having survived the lesson. Or to completely release and surrender each other from 'karma'. I, myself prefer to continue loving in reconciliation - even if it is from afar. I've learned some patience... I sure have.

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"There are three things that cannot remain hidden - the sun, the moon and the truth." ~ Dalai Lama


Last edited by 7:2:5 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:16 pm 
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starduster wrote:
There is a suggested technique, found in the 6th Lyricus Discourse, ( http://www.wingmakers.com/lyricus6.html ) that explains how one may make this adjustment to the incoming energy, and overwrite the program of the ego, for optimal performance. It allows the ego to be less defensive, and self centered...and this upgrade to the "Intuitive" intelligence allows forgiveness to flow freely without thought, instantly. :D


Excellent suggestion Starduster! I was going to suggest as well. It really does have a way of 'stripping' the ego in a useful way. :)

I also agree with the quotes Seed has provided from the EH (Energetic Heart) WM Material. Everything is perfect.

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"There are three things that cannot remain hidden - the sun, the moon and the truth." ~ Dalai Lama


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Nathan wrote:
It is the ego's misunderstanding that makes it possible to forgive, necessary. But it is not really so hard to forgive. It is hard only because it has not yet been actually done. This is the distinction I am making. You can think that you forgive. Above the page, I have explained it a little closer. Greetings, cv



Yes, it is only when the ego-mind is still attached to maintaining its position or image of itself that it struggles with being able to forgive something. This is because it is really more involved with its own self-maintanance (dominance) and separation than it is with true forgiveness, which has no thought, and no thinker. There is no movement of separation in the expression of unconditional love, it only unifies.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:20 pm 
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seed wrote:
Nathan wrote:
It is the ego's misunderstanding that makes it possible to forgive, necessary. But it is not really so hard to forgive. It is hard only because it has not yet been actually done. This is the distinction I am making. You can think that you forgive. Above the page, I have explained it a little closer. Greetings, cv

Yes, it is only when the ego-mind is still attached to maintaining its position or image of itself that it struggles with being able to forgive something. This is because it is really more involved with its own self-maintanance (dominance) and separation than it is with true forgiveness, which has no thought, and no thinker. There is no movement of separation in the expression of unconditional love, it only unifies.


Beautifully and succinctly put. :)

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"There are three things that cannot remain hidden - the sun, the moon and the truth." ~ Dalai Lama


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:36 pm 
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thank you 725 for what you have contributed from your personal life's experiences...and yes, I can see your growth and progress...and reading your heartfelt expression, really resonates within me... as this flowed through me....making all the little tiny hairs stand up with its potency...on its way to becoming part of my Quantum presence.

Thank you all for what you have contributed... it has been an enhancing experience reading this topic again...recognizing how we have grown...by letting the heart's virtues flow.

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:10 pm 
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Wonder if your intent isn't recognized for what it is and misunderstood and the person is hurt when that wasn't your intent? We do not have control over how anyone will react or respond to what we say and they will take it how they want too for their own reasons. It is important to be aware of why we say what we do to each other and whether it is coming from a heart understanding or not. As to karma that is part of the HMS which does not mean what we do for our intent doesn't attract the same back to us. It's about how aware we are of ourselves and what we do and why we do it. Forgiveness is mighty because it allows us to forgive ourselves in particular no matter what we have done. It may not stave off what we have attracted to us because of it but at least we can gain an understanding without hurting ourselves and others again.

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The SI IS.

"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:17 pm 
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An example of what I just posted is the Camelot Interview with James. Some people are very angry with him about how direct he is and it doesn't fall in line with their perception of how he should be or what they perceive from the rest of the WMM which he has said and proven many times, changes.Should he feel bad? I don't think so. He's aware of his intent and reasons and also that not everyone else is but it is important enough that he did what he did how he did it. The onus is on who receives it now and how they choose to respond and for what reasons. It's interactive. The angry people should perhaps, forgive themselves for their reaction.

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The SI IS.

"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"


Cathedral - CS&N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaSU0ABrnY


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:08 am 
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When we are able to surrender our ego/personalities to our Higher Self/Sovereign Integral the intelligent Being of Forgiveness for example, becomes a “natural state of acceptance” (James’ PC Interview p 39”)
According to James, (in Living from the Heart e-paper p. 43) forgiveness “releases yourself from the clutches of time...entangling you energetically to a time based emotional state” Then in the When-Which-How Practice. On pages 36 & 37 I found very helpful when I just reread them, “Forgiveness lives in the light of the Soul’s (or Higher Self) which knows justice is meted out as part of the harmonizing principle of the multiverse.”

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:15 am 
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Shayalana wrote:
LOL I'm sure you'll answer the question Comet if you haven't already. Isn't that how it always is, we ask then various opinions are given some appropriate, others not and we just pick and choose what we most resonate with. Rather efficient huh?



Thanks Shayalana i already have answered that and reading thru this thread i need to try and make things right again you guys given me alittle hope i know we pick and choose which is important to us in our lives and this person is to me i need to learn to be more compassionate at times too what can i say i am the hardest on myself :D

Glad i started this thread you guys helped me out alot and made me feel alot better so saying thanks :D


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:21 am 
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Shayalana wrote:
Wonder if your intent isn't recognized for what it is and misunderstood and the person is hurt when that wasn't your intent? We do not have control over how anyone will react or respond to what we say and they will take it how they want too for their own reasons. It is important to be aware of why we say what we do to each other and whether it is coming from a heart understanding or not. As to karma that is part of the HMS which does not mean what we do for our intent doesn't attract the same back to us. It's about how aware we are of ourselves and what we do and why we do it. Forgiveness is mighty because it allows us to forgive ourselves in particular no matter what we have done. It may not stave off what we have attracted to us because of it but at least we can gain an understanding without hurting ourselves and others again.


Thanks again Shayalana

Your right alot of what happened was a huge misunderstanding things were said in the heat of the moment! Your right we don't have any control by the way we react to beign hurt things esclated more than they needed to be and too many people got involved too i don't like manipulation but i do see their side i don't blame them no more! More like myself i should of been more understanding.

Karma always comes up when things like this happen doesn't lol. This person means to much and i can never truly stay mad for long to bad others had to get involved and made things worse hey not gonna make that mistake again.

Lessons learned on both sides i guess. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:23 am 
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dberges wrote:
When we are able to surrender our ego/personalities to our Higher Self/Sovereign Integral the intelligent Being of Forgiveness for example, becomes a “natural state of acceptance” (James’ PC Interview p 39”)
According to James, (in Living from the Heart e-paper p. 43) forgiveness “releases yourself from the clutches of time...entangling you energetically to a time based emotional state” Then in the When-Which-How Practice. On pages 36 & 37 I found very helpful when I just reread them, “Forgiveness lives in the light of the Soul’s (or Higher Self) which knows justice is meted out as part of the harmonizing principle of the multiverse.”


Hi dberges

Thanks for that and that is true i already forgave myself, them, and the situation you do feel so much freer without all that added unessary guilt hanging over your shoulder.

I just wish more people were as forgiving it would make the world a better place :D


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:44 am 
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Quote:
If it is okay, I want to share a bit. I believe it's about the intent. Maybe the outcome was so very different than what was hoped, but we still have to own it and face it. Sometimes, we have to offer ourselves the most compassion and understanding to get beyond that shame. We have to be humble to ourselves. Then the true work begins. Within to manifest without.


Hi 725 thanks for sharing all that! Yes i understand that we need to own it and face it but prolbem is i am willing to and i guess people find it easier to run away than dealing with it that is fine i made peace with it just want them to be :wink:

Its hard to be humble with ourselves at times especially going thru this past month was tough but made it thru with the help of wonderful friends! I do need to be more understanding too! I will always admit when i am wrong too in this situation i was!
Quote:
But I will tell you something wonderful about self-forgiveness, if you can truly, genuinely, sincerely come from a place of deep love - there is a very beautiful transmutation and transformation that can happen. You might not see the results immediately in your 'local universe', but you will feel it with your 'energetic heart' as it increases in its sensitivity. Those who are connected to your 'web' might not even be aware of what is happening, but I can guarantee that at some place and point in time - it will come to a peaceful place. And perhaps even an opportunity to reconcile, move forward and love on a deeper level - having survived the lesson. Or to completely release and surrender each other from 'karma'. I, myself prefer to continue loving in reconciliation - even if it is from afar. I've learned some patience... I sure have.


I am feeling that peace right now its an amazing feeling! Now i would love to reconcile with this person and see that love on a deeper level just not sure its possible anymore

Patience is my weakness and so is leaving things unresolved especially someone who is that special to me! Hope in time we can surrender this and move on i want nothing more just hope this person knows how sorry i am.


Last edited by Comet on Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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