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 Post subject: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Carollynn's Private message and my reply

Your motive for private messaging this information is based on your distorted belief about 'who I am' and 'what my agenda is' and your inability to be completely honest with yourself as to the internal beliefs you cling to from the past you have chosen to experience, much of which is clouded by conspiracy theory and religious sympathy, and the subsequent antipathy you have towards those your beliefs force you to see as different and anti your own agenda.

I say this in order to message you that I understand your animosity and support of anything which seeks to hamper my sharing on this forum because you consider me your enemy.

That is your walk and you are welcome to continue along that path and I assure you that I will not consider your actions in any way to bring me into the war you wish to fight.

You say the information you messaged me, you thought I might be interested in. I read it and am not interested.

Your insistence that you see Manu Iti as my "handler" underlines my own understanding as to your religious background...I wonder if you see Mahu Nahi as James' 'handler' And more to the point, I understand how you see the difference - you are afraid to meet and to merge with this aspect of yourself - and frankly - I do not blame you for being afraid given the way you behave - but in fairness you cannot put that onto my own relationship with any aspect of myself - even though this is exactly what you attempt to do, and your success is only apparent within the outward expressions of those who are themselves frightened and easily lead by fearful imaginations...their journey is your journey and even if your beliefs about 'getting younger' and staying within your present form are to be - no matter how many hundreds of years go by you will still be faced with the same necessity - to meet with and merge with those aspects of yourself you presently continue to distrust.

I could provide many examples – but two most recent ones are your sharing of moving into the artwork and experiencing being in that world in ‘3D living colour’ as it were.
Knowing your expression over the years, especially in regards to that CC and your claims re you and your dog, I take much of what you say with a grain of salt – as the saying goes – but whether truth or lie – it still reveals something of your inner workings – disconnected as they are from those aspects of yourself you choose to continue to distrust and to keep away from you. These are never far from you of course, and eternally patient and I must add – Love you unconditionally despite your perpetual denial and consignment of shadows onto them.

And your externalising transference of these fearful imaginations onto others who choose to share, as do I.

No harm done though – Manu Iti is no more a shadow of dark agenda than Mahu Nahi.

Even more recently you share this:

Expression: Your adventures in the "other worlds" may prove to be very helpful ... If I were to meet a creature like this, I would be too scared to think of anything but running to safety
but I bet you would sit down and talk to it

with the word "Quantum" in the title, perhaps James is trying to get us accustomed to what (when our consciousness is fully enhanced) we will be seeing in our reality - that dwells in these quantum worlds that we are surrounded by (60% dark matter according to Science) ... that (most) people aren't aware of existing AND influencing us ... are they "friendlies" or how can you tell ... are we self-confident enough to find out? have we really Mastered our Emotions? ...

On the surface this looks really hopeful in the sense that you might be willing to eventually master your emotions etc…now the thing is – while you allow yourself to be distracted by the kind of stuff such as you private messaged me, this only serves as a distraction to the inevitable, Carollyn.

The creature in question – in this instance – and every instance (for there are many creatures of form not ‘human’) is most amicable to your communion – to ‘sit down and talk with it’ as you expressed – rather than thinking only of running to safety.
(and in the case of your picture portal experience – not seeing any ‘entities’ but maybe ‘feeling’ that they were somehow present)
And this sentiment is attached to everything you do and have done in your walk.
You run for safety.
You attack a perceived threat to your beliefs.
You applaud others who join this attack.
However, the truth is – such tactics as ‘run for safety’ and ‘attack the perceived enemy’ (of the creation of your fearful imagination) are merely expression of a personality reduced to a fraction of its true potential.
‘Who are the friendlies’? ‘How can you tell’? ‘Are we self confident enough to find out’?
And while we ask those questions, ‘who shall we dump on in the mean time?’


Those who are not self confident enough to find out NOW, will occupy their time trashing anything which threatens their place of ‘safety’.

My advice to you as to this practice is to replace it with something more appropriate to you internal journey and cease from the habit of interpreting the external based on the shallows of you internal processes.
Humble yourself.
Sit with James and Mark and open your heart to what is being spoken of in those session interviews and allow the tone of the information to clear a path for you to contact and commune with the Presence. Do not ‘run for safety’ anymore – because you run from a shadow that is cast by you, and in fear.
Go DEEP – even as deep as the deepest ocean. It is Nessy-sary.

Now back to the content of the information you private messaged me.

My understanding of the human condition is largely based upon my belief in the human potential – a potential which is crippled by the very idea that the masses are controlled by forces which are of dark agenda and loveless in relation to the ones being controlled.
Thus, and once again – this is directly related to run and hide or fight to the death mentality…fearful imaginations which directly relate to the walls of suppression being kept solidly in place.

It matters not Carollyn, if you wish to believe a handful of ‘those in the know’ are manipulating humanity toward a nasty end.
As long as you and everyone else believe and propagate such belief in each other, you design your own kind of fate.
This is why I created the ‘Bread Sandwich’ thread, exposing my seemingly naive understanding of human beings.
But I continue to understand the potential of human beings to understand that they could if they chose to, organise their lives here on this planet for the betterment of everyone.
Now supposing those few in the most powerful positions also understand this potential and are able to assist in this unfolding…WHAT is the one thing they have no power to directly make happen?

The answer is simple. They cannot directly influence an individual’s belief regarding all the scary monsters which are created by those in positions which effectively come between the populace and the few.

What they can do though is to bring into the human domain another way of looking at things – another way really – but these offerings are mainly distorted as being more ‘dis-information’ from the ‘PTB.’

The agenda which keeps things as they are is propagated by the middle section which is comfortable and content with the way they have manipulated the course of human history – and I know you understand Anu to be the same being as Jehovah or Yahweh so understand also (for the evidence is written) that this ‘god’ had a most difficult task in directing humanity away from the things which have caused humanity so much grief – pain and suffering - as history shows.

Much of that has to do with using ‘middle personalities’ which were entrusted with voicing that direction and the classic ’10 Commandment’ story underlines this problem…the people thus given the commandments immediate create ‘lawyers’ in which to question those same commandments and before long sub-section 123B of the clauses come into play…and why? Because the people don’t want to run their lives through obedience to commands.

Fair enough – fast forward to Jesus, and we can read where he speaks of the sham of such ‘lawyer’ practices and simply gives another way of ‘seeing’ things…simplifying the ten into two.

Fast forward to today and we see how the middle sector has used this Jesus character to their own ends…and we see how religions are formed and for what purpose?

So here we have humans who will not bend to the voice of the invisible ‘god’ yet quiet readily serve the voice of the visible controllers – the middle section of human society and that they are okay with obedience to commands from that section…and wouldn’t you know it – humans following humans.

As you know – because I have not hidden it – I come from a similar background of believing in that ‘god’ however what you don’t appreciate is that I came to an understanding regarding that ‘god’ that all was not ‘right’ and indeed I was able to sift through the distortions and misdirection’s enough to understand how humans had bent things to suit their own agendas, but I also understood the fact that this ‘god’ had made some real mistakes himself and this is why I reacted as I did when he visited me that night – I hated what he had done – the part he had played and got so wrong – he was the ‘devil’ as far as I was concerned – and a surrogate ‘god’ – which is to say – I never lost my love for GOD – I simply understood that this particular fellow, was NOT God.

Talk about projecting! Who was it then who displayed contempt and hate and all those other emotions and tried to project them onto another?

Ah yes – the reaction to the things we don’t know yet presume otherwise.

And the power of Unconditional Love.

So we are faced with unconditional love despite our raging hatred and this leads the honest of heart to reinvestigate their ‘self’

And come to Understanding.

And you Carollyn would take such a sharing and attempt to beat it into a shape which better fits your beliefs – and suggest that I was manipulated by something like that beam of light in the DP story which gives a feeling of ‘bliss’ so that one might ‘love’ ones ‘captor’ – you will serve yourself better to be honest that this is another layer of your wall which ‘keeps you safe and running’ but eventually – even if it takes the better part of an eternity – your will find yourself facing yourself and that self will show you undeniably its unconditional love for you…no matter how far you have strayed from your own heart – no matter what choices you have made on your path through conscious experience…but you will never be able to accept it until you have learned not to vilify anyone else who – like myself – is able to share what I have experienced, anymore than you will be able to visibly meet entities through picture portals, or converse with undersea creatures or whatever else makes these experiences impossible for you to partake in – because you do not trust yourself…yes Carolyyn you certainly do trust the ego personality and IT tells you nothing else can be trusted because it tells you that everything else is NOT part of it…but the ego personality is NOT the full extent of who you are.

So in relation to that information you PM’d me – I understand the words written and the path of those who speak them. Just as I understand the processes of Lyricus and the continued attempt to free individual human beings from the clutches of their own belief systems propagated as they were through the middle human controllers – they work with what they have to work with and thus are limited by the beliefs of humanity and the whole cause might seem hopeless but it is not.
I personally am not interested in taking sides. I understand that the ‘gods’ have had their own internal politics and that there has been a consuming argument that has raged since before the human form was created…and there has been betrayal and sabotage which has threatened to seal the fate of humanity as a consequence but I also understand something else which in order to see one has to remove themselves completely from that argument - from those politics of agenda – from that long haul road that rages its pathway across eons of time and space.

So – as with the Bread Sandwich thread – I continue to see the potential for humans to free themselves from the prison of their own making because free will and choice has never been taken from humans – only directed and limited through the illusions created by the middle sector…I let go of that ‘vision’ even though I know the truth of its potential – because humans choose to continue being involved with the argument, the distractions in order to ‘keep safe’ ‘run’ or simply ‘fight’ – I still support that very true potential – and continue to advocate this potential – which is why I support Lyricus – which is why I still post in this forum - I understand that they are connected intimately with Corteum and thus too with the Labyrinth Group but again – as powerful as these are - certainly in comparison with the middle sector of human organisation – the middle sector are more powerful in that the lies and distortions the propagate are BELIEVED by the lower section (which totally outnumber them) and THIS is where they continue to hold the main sway over the direction of all humanity who – of their own choice – don’t want to believe anything different.

You see – this middle sector are saying that the top brass (Lyricus, Corteum labyrinth etc…) are the evil doers, the manipulators, the distorters of truth…when all along it is THEY – the middle sector – the wall between the masses and the few – it is this middle sector which are the real evil-doers in this affair.

Thus, the long drawn out path is chosen by those masses of lower level humanity still stuck in the illusion that their freedom (what freedom?) their freedom they are told is freedom ‘the American Dream’ etc…their ‘right to vote’ their belief in an external enemy on the horizon – all tools of manipulation to keep the masses exactly where they CHOOSE to be.

Unaware of their true potential to recreate their circumstance to ultimately reflect the reality of True Freedom.

So – through their own CHOICE they decide to believe the stories about those few – the lies made up and sent out which are designed to distrust ‘those at the top’ while getting the same masses to trust the ones in the middle.


Whatever – eternity has a way of fixing such problems…and we are eternal and can spend an eternity coming to that realisation, if we so choose to.
I don’t.
I have better things to do with eternity which are not involved in the drama unfolding – which is not to say that I don’t CARE – because I so do care – but I understand that each and every individual is sovereign and NOT ONE PERSON is without choice and what each choose is their own to support, and if they so choose to believe what the middle tells them as being the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then that is their individual (and collective) choice and they will bear the responsibility of that choice for as long as they each and all choose to support it.

And while I am myself still in my awakening processes, I will continue to add my voice to the mix from the perspective of my own experience and subsequent choices as these shift into new realities beckoning me to eventual full awakeness removed completely from being within the drama of this human-created illusion – my destiny is elsewhere although I will always be available and continue to have an interest in the affairs of humans as I know without a shadow of doubt that eventually the full potential of humanity will become a reality within the framework of 3D…as each and every individual human wakes up to the truth of the lie of their own choices and claims their power to choose otherwise.

And on that note, I have no more to say in reply to your PM – and advise that this – my answer - will not remain solely within the hidden shadow of the private message realm – it is too important of course to remain hidden.

It is worthy of being shared.

In Love

The Info:

Carollyn: thought this might interest you ... and you might be able to discern the true agenda of your handler and the consequences, once you "join" them, if you fail ... I have no idea where it came from, found it on GLP ... but it sure sounds (tone) to me like the Incunebula - are you sure that you really want to be a part of this agenda ?

this is the way it appeared - I haven't changed or deleted anything from the original post

Insider Interview
This was recently forwarded to me via snail mail. Take it for what it's worth. I cannot validate authenticity one way or the other.


Firstly, who are you and what group do you represent?

At the risk of sounding dramatic, it would be fair to say that I am one of many. An individual selected and groomed so that I may contribute to something greater than the whole. The group I represent has no title.

So, you are not a Freemason or part of the Illuminati?

(Laughs) No. Although we will utilize that mythology and those associated with it to our advantage when appropriate.

Could you be a little more specific about what you and your group are about?

Sure. We are the individuals of influence chosen within this particular sector of time to assist in planetary guidance. That is to say, there were many more before us who have contributed over history and there will be many others after this generation of contributors pass. Our affiliation with each other is designed to be cooperative without direct connection to each other. The work we do is both sensitive and impactful, but never in a way that you or any other inquiring party could successfully navigate. Our history is long and purposely intricate in contrivance. In short, we are the ones who call the shots and make things happen - locally, nationally and globally.

You talk about those coming after you to contribute. Could you talk about the future? Is there imminent danger on the horizon?

This is always a possibility. However, with that being said, there is always a great deal of speculation concerning horrific events that one day might be considered game changers. Specifically, singular incidents that will suddenly and forever turn the tide of humanity toward an apocalyptic state of being. This is the result of successful predictive programming that has been in motion from the earliest incarnations of our movement. By keeping you in fear that your environment will quickly and permanently turn for the worse, the ability to control your next set of thought patterns becomes that much easier. Picture yourself on a tightrope high above a yawning chasm with someone yanking the rope for one side to the other. You have no idea which way the tension will give and your only focus is attempting to forecast the direction and the force of which will dictate it. Multiply this process three-fold and you have a good indication of how modern society is currently being manipulated. Through keeping your focus on an imagined singularity, we edge you closer to our ideal placement of society through incremental adjustments to law, perception and outcome. It's very simple, really. By manipulating the majority of the population, those who recognize or could influence our agenda are quickly swept away by the hive mind consciousness. Let me think how to best explain this. (long pause) For instance, we utilize this procedure to great effect through the mainstream media. Be it subliminal, strongly hinted at or outwardly placed in front of you, the repetition of our guidance ensures placement in your perception. It's not that some of you have not figured out the game to some extent, it is that from a metaphysical standpoint you are at a complete disadvantage form an energy perspective. Thought is energy that translates into passion, which inevitably finds its way into the material. We make you think it, and by universal law, you eventually create it. We sometimes need to push a little harder on the collective, but in the end it always translates into what we design. Nothing is ever traced back to us and the public unknowingly does the footwork.

So, we are talking about mass hypnosis?

For the most part, absolutely. If I could give you any advice, it would be to turn off your television (laughs).

Quick shift of gears, here. Could you comment on the existence of extraterrestrials?

(Laughs) Straight to the spooky stuff we go? Sure. This is always controversial, which is the way we prefer it. By keeping the public guessing, imagining and speculating about "little green men" we are able to foster competing factions within the field of this research. Infighting, disinformation and outright ridicule have always been the main propaganda tool utilized to keep the truth about galactic populations hidden. Your next question would obviously be, "Why?" It has to do with maintaining institutional and religious influence. Power is as power does. If the public were suddenly shown the truth, hard answers concerning many abiogenetic questions would have to be confronted. As ready as many people think they are to acquire the answers concerning extraterrestrial and extra-dimensional truth, they simply are not. Look at it this way - From an ancestral point of view, the majority of the public is incapable of grasping time-lines that extend beyond written historical records. The seeds of this civilization were introduced to this region of the galaxy some fifteen million years ago and allowed to evolve independently. It has taken a very long time to get here and will take a very long time to get where we are going. It's not called "The Great Work" for nothing. Couple this with the inability to even remotely comprehend the astrobiology and the inherent vastness of space, any detailed explanation to the common individual would supersede their capacity for understanding. So, to answer your question: Yes, aliens exist. Would you understand in what capacity they operate? Absolutely not. I barely comprehend the situation myself. I can tell you our understanding of physics is barely out of kindergarten and our spiritual comprehension is embryonic at best. Quite frankly, it is much easier to keep the current systems of belief, control and power in place. However, a large effort is currently underway to adjust this process.

What do you mean by that?

Manipulation of a species growth defeats the initial purpose of which all soul based races depend on, which is to transcend the challenges of the dimension of where it is placed. The entities that grace us with their presence have been very specific as to the laws of karmic influence. That is to say, you can't just go rolling into a possible future without consequence. However, well placed adjustment events and evolutionary "pathing" is ultimately necessary with such a large global population. Much of this dominates our discussions and is never put into motion without proper consultation. We know where things need to be headed and understand best how to forward the means towards that optimal future.

Have you personally had contact with one of these entities?

One does not have contact with them, they have contact with you.

Is that a "YES?"

In October of 1986 I was privileged to attend what we term a "high counsel" session where one of the ancestral beings was present. So, it was not an individual contact, per se.

What was it like? May I ask what was discussed?

Being a first time attendee, it was very intimidating. My superiors are people of great influence whose presence alone is enough to alarm even the toughest of minds. Couple that with the fact I understood a traveler would be in the room and you have a recipe for nausea (laughs). In addition to documentation I was to memorize, I was given very specific meditation instructions to help clear my mind of any unnecessary or inappropriate thought. It immediately became clear as to why when I sat down at the table. Through the traveler, I could sense a connection and conversation of the fifteen of us sitting in the conference room. No words were ever physically spoken, only thoughts and intentions that were simultaneously interpreted through the visitor. It took some getting used to.

So, a sort of telepathy?

In theory, exactly that. Except that the vernacular was emotion, perception and intention. Language is considered primitive when associating with travelers. No dictionary or thesaurus could of assisted you in that room.

And the topics of discussion?

I cannot be specific. I can only tell you that the visitors are a very neutral and extremely patient bunch. To them, coming here is much like visiting a preschool playground where the toughest kids are continually utilizing weaponry to influence different areas of the yard. How to mitigate and ultimately end this power struggle is apparently a continuing conversation amongst the regular attendees. My participation was minimal and only requested because of my expertise in sociology. With permission, I discussed the encounter with my superior after the meeting and we agreed that there is a very real sense that these beings could fix the majority of the earth's problems very quickly. We then had to accede that they could vaporize us even quicker.

Why don't they help?

Well, they do. Very much so. However, the assistance and suggestions are delivered in a manner that best suits the overall consciousness of the planet and not particular segments of the population.
It is no mistake that technological output and understanding today nearly doubles every six months. The things that are in store for the general public within the next decade are straight out of a science fiction novel. Everyone will be amazed. However, like all good things, this must be rolled out incrementally in a way that makes sense. The human mind and body must be adjusted slowly with minimal impact to the cerebral cortex. Our perception works a bit like a large capacitor. For as much as it can handle, you don't want to introduce an overload of electricity to the unit all at once.

Is there a chance we could ultimately be destroyed at the hands of these beings?

That is very unlikely. If they were to have done this, it would already of been accomplished years ago. There is an understanding that although flawed, we as a human race are a very special breed with unlimited potential.

One last question concerning these visitors. Why don't they just land and make their presence known to everyone? Why the secrecy?

The best way to answer that question is to refer to my last answers concerning technology. This is something that needs to be indoctrinated into the population's acceptance and understanding over a long period of time. Panic, social unrest and institutional breakdowns are, and have remained, the number one concern in this area from the beginning. People may argue, "We are ready. Bring it on." Nothing could be farther from the truth. Picture an uneducated and highly armed group of religious right individuals drunk on a Sunday that are suddenly approached in a field somewhere. What do you think is going to happen? Boom Boom, ask questions later. It just happens to be where we are still at, collectively speaking. Now, extend that thinking into a global and geopolitical scenario. Suddenly, generations of belief and faith are snapped like a twig leaving entire societies grasping at their mortality. This just will not suffice in today's reality. Are there individuals and groups of individuals who could handle sudden exposure of extraterrestrial reality? Of course there are. But these are not the people who need to accept something they already know is the truth. Disclosure is currently in motion and has been controlled by us and our colleagues since the early thirties. By the year 2050, this will no longer be an issue and coordinating galactic societies will be well under way.


Yes. Really.

Getting back to the work you and your associates are involved in, what are some of the challenges you deal with?

As simple as that question may seem, to answer this is legitimately complicated. The projects we control and introduce are diverse, expansive and intricate. Each individual intention requires a sanitized application, impeccable oversight and pristine execution. With that being said, the individuals who are assigning these tasks possess the finest minds within the current time coordinate. In short, they know what they are doing. Each is responsible for the agents who actualize their processes and do have to answer for mistakes or when things go wrong. In turn, we are rewarded when things go as planned. I should also mention that any and all contributions must support the overall agenda in a way that moves what we term "The Illumination" forward. This has nothing to do with the aforementioned Illuminati or Freemasonry. Again, those are associations that have reached a mythical romanticism in the eyes of the public and conspiracy theorists. They flat out have nothing to do with our design. In any case, the challenges we face are not unlike those of sophisticated corporations. The difference being is that the consequences for lapse in judgement or operation can be severe and occasionally, permanent.

Can you provide an example?

Obviously, I cannot be specific. However, we recently needed to remove a high ranking official from public office due to their lack of adherence. You, as well as everyone else, saw or heard about this in the news.

Adherence to what?

There is an obedience and discipline necessary to execute our work. This individual was negligent in maintaining certain technological understandings and continually applied antiquated applications to modern problems concerning communication. The results were embarrassing for his handler and were devastating to a piece of legislation that we currently consider detrimental to our current obligations. This was not the first time they were inattentive, but it certainly was their last.

Are many mistakes made?

We do not have the time or patience for laziness or half measures. The stakes are much too high. However, so is the reward. The motivation for all of us to succeed has become second nature for the majority of us involved. It takes some doing to groom each one us, but groomed we are. We do not execute if we cannot establish a guaranteed assurance of achievement. We live lavish and privileged lives because of what we do. Risking any detail of a satisfactory completion is unacceptable.

Is there ever a fear of backlash or negative reprisal when problematic situations arise for any of you?

The planning of each scenario has contingencies set in place for every possible outcome. Individuals and their extenuating circumstances are vetted in a way to establish conformity at every turn. Let me put it this way: Sometimes Hollywood gets it right. Other times, its simply a parting of ways. Levels of involvement will usually determine disciplinary outcome. Regardless, things are compartmentalized to such a degree that the influence of a mistake could never reveal the architecture of the objective.

Is there not a sense of guilt or question of morality in what you do?

Absolutely not. Once I became privy to the true 30,000 foot view of how things actually operate, I immediately understood the need for guidance and manipulation. The true nature of things is something that takes a long while to educate oneself on. Proper direction and study of certain literature is vital to handle what is actually "the gospel truth". The general public is too busy consuming reality junk shows to realize the razors edge they are balancing on. It would only take a couple of phone calls for the whole thing to come crashing down around them here in America and even abroad. Take a look around you, do things seem under control? Never before has it been so clear that radical social change is necessary for us to survive. It is an honor to be allowed to contribute, let alone to study these truths I have been privileged to glimpse. The education process never ceases.

Can you comment on what some of these social changes will be?

Firstly, it will be economic. The distribution of wealth has been purposely skewed to ensure collapse of the present system. Like everything else, this will come to fruition like a slowly boiling frog. What once worked nationally is no longer sustainable and has to be transformed into a singular international process and currency. As you know, there are regions of the globe that need to be brought in line in order for this to occur. The footings we now possess in these radical domains are currently sowing their seeds of influence. It is really just a matter of revealing to those populations what they do not have that they could take possession of. Want and envy take over from there. It is important that certain societies be brought into the correct century.

So, we are talking about a New World Order?

For lack of a better term, yes. As demonetizing as many believe it to be, it has become an inevitable truth for our future. It always amuses me that the detractors of such a philosophy can turn to a place like Afghanistan and label it as a Stoneage society, all the while insisting their country or political institution not progress. How do they think the Afghans arrived at their current destination? They never moved forward. Progress must be a constant if a society is to ever survive. Because of the intentional global interweaving of all business, which by the way was facilitated by the internet, there will be no choice but to move into a singular currency. The images of jack booted thuggery associated with the term "New World Order" will only be a reality in the short term due to pocket resistance as we move forward towards our goals. Eventually, the environment will stabilize. However, unrest is unavoidable.

Is there a need to prepare?

Anyone who is not prepared for at least a three month stretch of time is clearly not paying attention. Food, medicine, and more water than you think you need should always be in place. I would also recommend arming yourself and getting to know your neighbors. If you have a place to retreat to where these supplies are also available, all the better. You will have about three days to get your affairs in order before others start running out and start looking around.

What about those who refuse to go along?

Well, we are seeing that right now. Slowly, their "Arab Springs" come to fruition and change becomes possible. For the cantankerous hold out nations, ask them how it's going minus natural resources. Have you ever seen a nighttime satellite view of the Korean Peninsula? The Northern area is a pretty dark place at night, not to mention during the days as well. As for individuals within and without this country, they will be dealt with. Sometimes fairly, and sometimes not so much. One need only look at the ever evolving security apparatus surrounding us to see how these concerns are currently being addressed now and in the future. The agenda at hand is too important to let a few survival enthusiasts get in the way. I mean no disrespect with that, either. We understand how this mode of thinking is propagated and maintained. However, it is time to grow up both internationally and spiritually. It's time to get on the bus or be left behind. Your choice.

You just mentioned spirituality. How important of a role does this play in the overall scheme of things?

It is everything. I hate to break this to the Atheists, but "God" does exist (laughs).

Can you elaborate?

I should clarify. There is an ultimate source of power that exists within all things. No one thing is independent and no one thing exists outside of this energy. Although the ego mind may trick you into thinking the opposite, the grand connection is a fact. The more one attempts to accept and allow this energy to work through and for them, the more fulfilling ones existence becomes. I realize this is simple spiritual law I am communicating here, but it is through this simplicity that the Universal Truth manifests and flourishes within. This takes an enormous amount of trust and discipline. What absolutely does not work is rigidly preconceived notions of religious adherence. Radical fundamentalism comes in all shapes and sizes and is detrimental not only to the individual, but to the collective consciousness as a whole. It is perfectly logical and acceptable to follow Jesus, Allah, Buddha or Krishna. These paths all lead to what some of us term as "The Ultimate Accuracy." However, the majority of followers drown themselves in the details by insisting if others would follow their path, the stones attached to their feet would be released into the sea in which they are falling. Devotion is a double edged sword, even in our line of work.

How can you justify your work after a statement like that? There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with your actions.

I sense you believe our work and the secrecy behind it as something that is inherently evil. I fully understand as to why. Just the same, it is quite the opposite. We are doing the most good for the most people that we can. Will there be devastating consequences for some as we move forward? Without question. What one must come to understand, is that it will always be this way. What you may be forgetting to remember is that as terrible as things may seem to be, we as a human race have never had it better. Less people are dying from disease, more children are educated, opportunity is there for anyone willing to work, war has become regionalized, resources are now becoming available where they were not... the list goes on. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Far from it. We have much more work to do over a very long period of time. People must learn to adapt. Things are always changing, and to be living in some sort of patriotic nostalgia, will be the death of you and your loved ones. There is only so much that we can do. As much as we control, opportunity is provided at every term for the common individual. There is a responsibility and need for others to contribute. In our view, the people have allowed things to go too far.

Shouldn't the resources and wealth be distributed evenly, or at least, in a more coherent fashion?

Without question. May I now ask you a question?

Of course.

Why aren't the majority of you demanding accountability of your government and financial systems? Where are the crowds demanding change? We don't, and cannot, control everything and everybody. It seems to me, that those with enough stamina and wherewithal, any group of citizens can achieve pretty much anything. Until this is figured out, not much is going to change outside of what we are changing. The common individual, specifically those in America right now, have forgotten what it means to stand up and say, "Enough is enough." The people you have in charge are not necessarily "our" people. We as a collective chosen group of individuals are simply guiding things along. We sometimes marvel at the lack of interest and involvement.

Yet, your group seems to have all the power. Why should one group have more power than any other?

Because power is the most influential and devastating drug of all. Until knowledge and illumination are the norm, keeping power isolated to the trusted few is not only appropriate, it is an absolute necessity. Without controls, a chaos and devastation would sweep this globe in a manner that you could hardly imagine. As bad as things appear, they could be much, much worse. Be honest with yourself, do you really believe there shouldn't be an insider influence right now? The current administrations all over the globe can barely tie their shoes in the morning. The majority have no idea whom and what they are working towards. They are very much like anyone else, difference being that they exist in this life with a title. That title gives them only perceived power in the eyes that bestowed it upon them. Think on that.

I know your time is short and I thank you for doing this. Last question: Why do this interview?

Throughout this discussion we have touched upon incremental exposure. This is, without question, our Modus Operandi on a continuing basis. Over the next several years, more and more will be revealed at the appropriate juncture to allow the populations to adjust. We have actually needed to pull back once the Bush administration left office and allow the atmosphere to cool. It was determined the progress that occurred during that time was far too aggressive. In any case, it is just time again to allow another peak, if you will.

Thank you, again.
You are most welcome.

Subject: Inner sun outer sun solar

starduster wrote:
Daath wrote:
so much for your "gnosis" experience and your partial truths from the past

Quotation marks are often used to express irony; Ironic statements (verbal irony) typically imply a meaning in opposition to their literal meaning. "Irony consists in stating the contrary of what is meant." Whatever Wikipedia says about your Quotation marks, their meaning in this context was to diminish the statement value. Ive experienced this countless times by the same people as yourself. People who are not interested in communication but only to preserve the status quo of their fasade presentation in a social context aka. persona.

In short you try to diminish the value of what i am stating. I need too point out the fact that this post is posted in General discussions, and should therefore not be limited to the the provided material in the wingmaker website.

When i had the awakening experience i knew instinctively from the consciousness of higher vibration, closer to source that all information that was given to me was not to be shared because its the nature of the EGO too distort any spiritual truth to the the fullest extent possible.

Also i have had countless logical arguments against whatever statement you present and the fact that you have ignored them all is the very definition of living inside a box.

There have been countless assumptions and arguments against my expressed statements etc. and mostly all are false. What Ananake said about you dominating is very accurate. Ananake seem to be a loving person in contrast to yourself. These kind of things are not that difficult to assert from a persons behavior. You have many negative traits that expose your true nature as a false light bringer. You should try to be more loving and caring and meet people at the middle ground and even perhaps give logical arguments against your debutant arguments for the sake of communication. You are but one consciousness, one perspective, the need for us to communicate is crucial for the collective understanding of what is reality.

Get to know yourself and face yourself - not going to happen while yourself is your ego personality devoid of allowing QP to be the governing voice...Wont happen in this lifetime obviously unless you apply the belief that you will live longer and get younger...thereby giving yourself the hundreds of years necessary to prepare ego personality for being ABLE to meet and merge with QP - I understand where you are 'coming from' your 'going to'



Subject: The True Purpose Of This Forum

Re: The Purpose Of This Forum

William: I dont hate anyone, nor do I love anyone more than anyone else, nor do I hate idiots, those who slander and lie and gossip, although I don't like what they do I realize they are simple willing tools for dysfunction believing themselves to be serving a holier than thou purpose, believing that it is 'okay' for them to behave like that in the name of their beliefs.
Ask yourself:

Why do you hate that which you slander?
Why do you slander that which you hate?

Subject: Reading the novel

Shayalana wrote:
How about ones connection to First Source and there is only one and it is through the Energetic Heart and there is only one saving grace from mind control or the programming of that and it is with one's focus and attention on the EH being central and with the practice of the 6 Heart Virtues activation takes place as the flow of love comes through and is released. This is the only way in terms of the discovery of the Grand Portal and what makes that possible through realizing one's soul , it's purpose and manifesting that into this third dimension. There is only one way to do that whether you agree or not and who cares if you do or not for there are enough people knowing and doing this one way to make the difference and it has nothing to do with your so called god, that's just another mind control program of the HMS Mishishi kun.... :mrgreen:

Your mask is apparent.

When you have learned to do without it, you will feel the freedom of the unveiled self and never be unloved again.

All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:59 pm, edited 18 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:36 pm 
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This thread like your other one has little to do with the WMM and you like CV are contorting and distorting them according to your own self serving and self promoting agenda.


The SI IS.

"Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality"

Cathedral - CS&N


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:28 pm 
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All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:19 am, edited 5 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:41 pm 
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I never click onto your links and none of my computers have functioning webcams.

The SI IS.

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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:42 pm 
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I for one am following along at home, despite the disruption. Do continue.

Love your new avatar. "I find myself very light-headed…mesmerized might be another way to say it..."

In all that I do, may the Heart of the One hold sway over the minds of the many.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:10 am 
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He channels dark energies and was warned some years ago not to do it . He ignored the advice. The effects this forum has been subjected to with his disrespect and abuse for many years is about to end. Even though he continually makes the choice to do the same thing in disrespect and abuse it is his choice. He doesn't have too and he knows that and you feel sorry for him which isn't compassion or understanding and it just encourages him to continue on doing the same thing. And you think you know more about this than he does or anyone else here . We'll see about that and see how long it takes before he does the same to you and especially when you don't agree with him and his "system" stolen from these works like CV does, his choice as well, and rearranged to self serve and promote his own agenda unaligned with these works and based on what he channels overall. This is not for the faint of heart or the weak or especially the uninformed , being informed is just as important as practicing the 6 Heart Virtues. You have little experience on this forum and its obvious but that's OK, you're about to get an education you haven't counted on. The practice of the 6 Heart Virtues have no place in William's "system" and perhaps the longer he stays here the more adverse effect because he is not open to this place so it unsettles him, like it does CV and Harley. And all 3 of them insist that we know nothing and that we need them to interpret for us. Fat chance of that. I say this too you where everyone can see it. The 3 most deluded by their grandiose egos will teach the rest of us? What's wrong with this incoherent picture? Your so called education does not work here like it doesn't for anyone seeking external confirmation for being needed by others. Everyone has to discover that within themselves of themsevles first, to find their way Home. It's the only way. I have no bone to pick with you but have felt your judgment of me for some time now and know that your association with William and CV and gang has a lot to do with it. Bless you sister, I can still appreciate that you are here for what you contribute that is clear and genuine.

The SI IS.

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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:01 am 
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I C U WILLIAM :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:19 am 
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All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:22 am, edited 6 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:20 am 
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All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:14 am, edited 16 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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Manu Iti: It is necessary to examine more closely the links between First Source Transmissions and Anunnaki – as presented by James in the Camelot Interview.

William: There is clear connection, albeit contradictory.

Manu Iti: “The Grand Architect of The Universe.

∆ In my deepest light I created you from my desire to understand my universe.

∆Each of these species is sent forth from the Central Race into the universe that was created to unveil its potential and seed vision.

∆ This is the hidden purpose of my/our will: to create new worlds of experience that stimulate our continuing evolution.

∆ Without you I am unable to evolve. Without me, you are unable to exist. This is our eternal bond. It was and is my desire to evolve that gave you existence. We, collectively, are the conjoint vessel of creation and exploration. We are the boldness of the uncharted journey and the imaginative energy of the out-picturing of new realities. We are the image of an ascending, infinite, expanding spiral that is created segment by segment by itself. We are inseparable – each the window of the other.

∆ That which I create is given the power to perform my role, thus I am hidden from your view because you have come to believe that I am that which I have created.

∆ I express to you that my world is the beacon of all personalities in all times, and whether you believe in me or not, you are unerringly drawn to the source from whence you were created

William: Okay so these are some of the creative expressions within the transmissions attributed to First Source.

Manu Iti: Now we examine the Camelot Interview regarding Anunnaki.

William: If there is anything that has created a schism in regard to James expressions, it is the Camelot Interview.
A clear example of this artificial process is found in these words:

Darlene: You "chose" to show your third dimensional behaviors. "As a sacred service to mankind," is exactly what Anu wants of you.

The Teachers of Light of the Lyricus Teaching Order are bring us ways to break free of the Human Mind System that Anu has program into humanity. That is what you are not able to move into the next dimension with such third dimensional density.

William: This effect these particular disclosures have had on some, are in opposition to the original materials – to the First Source Transmissions and to the WingMakers Philosophies – all of which point the seeker in the direction of ‘Service’ – not in the sense of doing so as response to specific orders – as in – not voluntarily from a sovereign choice, but rather from the perspective of wisdom and humility. Not a programmed response, but a genuine act of free will.

Manu Iti: Yes. It is easy for the individual to gravitate to that which serves the belief system of that individual.
It is understandable.

William: Yes.

Manu Iti: There is a promise of heaven. Call it the ‘next dimensional level’ to which 3d ‘customs’ are a barrier to this upgrade.
Truly, as James alludes to, there is a focus to the 5th Dimension which essentially sees through the deceptive qualities of the 4th…

Mahu Nahi: These three levels—WingMakers, Lyricus, and Event Temples—are aligned and coherent expressions of the one goal of our human family uniting in the behaviors of love and collectively knocking on the door of the fifth dimension, and meshing these energetics of the fifth dimension with the human domain. That is the Grand Portal.

God-Spirit-Soul Complex (GSSC) – This is the central element of the HMS that
anchors separation. The individualized human being, free of the HMS, is called
the Sovereign Integral in the WingMakers mythology. This is the true identity of
each and every human being. In this model of the Sovereign Integral, we are
Gods of our local multiverse, and collectively, we are First Source in the

Some refer to this as the soul, others refer to it as the astral body, but it is
simply a sheath for the Sovereign Integral to operate within and it remains
subject to the HMS and most of its programming. Thus, even upon death, the
Sovereign Integral is not released from the influences of the HMS or the human
instrument’s programs.

William: So the Sovereign Integral is simply under an influence of programes which keep it locked into Human Mind System.

Manu Iti: Therefore – is it correct to refer to it as ‘Sovereign’?

William: I don’t know – but James chooses to do so.

Manu Iti: It is really a trick of the conscious awareness. There is a greater purpose which is largely hidden as to why Anu’s programmes are an essential aspect of the unfolding story.

William: I think we have discussed this before…perhaps from a different angle?

Manu Iti: Yes. It has to do with exploration and creating a new thing.

William: Yes – I remember – so in effect the Sovereign Integral which has experienced the deception and understood it, thus understands that deception from within the deception…almost like watching a magician doing a complex illusion and understanding how the illusion is done…the saying ‘I guess you had to be there’ takes on a new level too.

Manu Iti: Indeed.

William: So the Sovereign Integral which has chosen to partake of the illusion and having done so, understands the illusion from within the illusion – this Sovereign Integral is different for the experience – it has become something else?

Manu Iti: It certainly isn’t what it was to begin with.

William: This reminds me of those who chose to remain outside the experiement of Anu’s…or was it First Source?

Manu Iti: Yes – the parallels are certainly obvious in regard to the information in First Source Transmissions, and those of the Anunnaki.

William: But the way James tells it, the Sovereigns who choose to participate were seduced – it leaves the impression that they were somehow inferior to those who resisted the seduction.

Manu Iti: Indeed – another wedge for the schism.

First Source is the Human Collective unencumbered with the HMS.
First Source divided itself into individualized expressions – us. In the beginning, we inhabited dimensions that were not material, but existed at quantum levels of time and space.

However, as the dimensions grew in density through the expansion of creation (our creation), we, as individualized, interdimensional beings, were seduced to enter the human body. This seduction was a co-conspiracy of forces led by Anu, the King of the Anunnaki, who required enslaved workers to mine the physical gold that was present on Earth in abundance. Those beings we now consider the
Atlanteans, were interdimensional living upon Earth, and Anu, with great cunning, convinced them to embody in human instruments.

This embodiment was a grand experiment in human engineering, and the
Human Mind System (HMS) was at the core of this project. Anu realized that the only way to enslave the Atlanteans was to sheath them in a mind system that would reduce their capacity to express their true nature, and instead, express the programs embedded within the HMS. These programs were the creation of Anu and his scientists.

William: Every story needs a villain.

Manu Iti: This story is one of forgetfulness. There is no real problem with having a villain if this inspires others to become aware of the suppression programmes and instigate the reconnection…the recollection.
Yes, it also provides an opportunity for human drama to inflict on their perceived enemies accusations, the obvious one being that one is an agent for ‘the enemy’.

William: But aren’t such stories the fuel which stokes the fires of disunity? Creating the schisms?

Manu Iti: They can be used like this, correct. However, they are not specifically designed for such use.

William: But surely those who tell such stories are offering the opportunity for the content to be used against others by those who are entrained by the human drama of the HMS programmes?

Manu Iti: In this case, the content is far more than what is offered in this interview and the best way to appreciate this is to consider all the information, as we have previously discussed.

William: So this too is interesting…

The pathway to God, independent of the religion or spiritual path one walked,
had the same program underlying it: You are a human with a soul, this soul
must be redeemed or activated, upon which you will be saved. In this process of
being saved, you are relinquished of self-responsibility to the world condition.
You are rewarded with a life eternal in the kingdom of God (by whatever name
you call God) where you can live in bliss and/or serve as a teacher of the light.

Manu Iti: What does it say to you?

William: Well LTO are ‘Teachers of Light’ so is James saying that LTO too is something within the confines of the suppression matrix?

Manu Iti: Is this James’s way of saying so?

William: Maybe – I don’t know.

Manu Iti: James is referring to the human teachers who are not seeing – or if they do – are not teaching about the entrapment of Sovereign Integral.
They are not therefore really ‘teachers of light’. They are keeping people who are stirring, who are wanting to awaken – keeping them in darkness – telling them effectively to ‘go back to sleep’ while preaching and teaching them that they are truly awakening.
This is the way of ensuring that reincarnation into the Realms of Beginnings and Astral are fed with the ingestible substance of human creativity being enslaved which increases the property of this partnership.

This is the antidote:

Each of us is our own and only savior, our only master who can truly cause us to stand-up within ourselves and shut down the suppression systems and awaken to their Sovereign Integral consciousness. This is the liberation path…

William: Yet here we see that Anu is now being touted as the one who wanted to explore the physical Universe:

Genetic Manipulation System (GMS) – This system was an outgrowth of various
interdimensional races working to create a suitable instrument for accessing the
physical world. It was Anu who specifically wanted to not only access the
physical world in order to exploit its resources, but to do so by suppressing the

infinite beings that would power the human instruments so he had the
equivalent of willing slaves. Yes, infinite beings can be suppressed into finite
beings when they are subjected to HMS.

William: And here we have First Source Transmissions:

The blueprint of exploration has an overarching intention; you are not the recipients of divine labor and meticulous training only to ensure that you may enjoy endless bliss and eternal ease. There is a purpose of transcendent service concealed beyond the horizon of the present universe age. If I designed you to take you on an eternal excursion into nirvana, I certainly would not construct your entire universe into one vast and intricate training school, requisition a substantial branch of my creation as teachers and instructors, and then spend ages upon ages piloting you, one by one, through this enormous universe school of experiential learning.

Manu Iti: Yes

William: And this:

The ascendant beings of time are converging to my central abode. All are drawn to me for the purpose of my/our will to be expressed throughout the grand universe in order to cast another grand universe, and to deepen the skin of my/our personality. This is the hidden purpose of my/our will: to create new worlds of experience that stimulate our continuing evolution.

Manu Iti: Yes.

William: And this:

I would prefer to be known to you at all times and places, but if I did this then the evolutionary journey of my creation would break down, and the teacher-student ordering of my system of ascendancy would falter. I have cast myself into numberless orders of beings that collectively constitute the evolutionary bridge of your ascendancy into my realm. There is no step of your journey that another has not already taken on behalf of those who follow

Manu Iti: Yes.

William: So then – who created this Universe – First Source or Anu?

Manu Iti: Look at this and tell me what you find.

Wholeness Navigator – This is the element of HMS that activates the individual’s authentic search for God in the context of wholeness, oneness, unity, and equality. Some people undertake this search because they feel an obligation to do this as a means to appease the expectations of their parents, spouse, or their own sense of guilt. The authentic search, as decreed by the Wholeness Navigator, is a recent bypass that has been brought into the human instrument through GMS, which is an open system. While it is still an artifact of the HMS, it is a backdoor into the liberation path.

William: It says that without the understanding of Wholeness, Oneness, Unity and Equality – the seeker remains non-genuine and thus will not find.

Manu Iti: This is true but it speaks something else as well – in relation to Wholeness, Oneness, Unity and Equality…

William: The genuine seeker needs to incorporate those aspects which have being used to keep them separate?

Manu Iti: Elaborate.

William: In this instance – or frame of reference, it is Anu – so describe as cunning and powerful and manipulative and seductive and clever…

Manu Iti: …yes?

William: …thus we have a villain – a reason for our misunderstanding of separateness…which as you suggest – could spur one on to realisation regarding this clever illusion – it is not the separateness, but how we behave within the illusion of separateness which will determine if we are each able to shift the intelligence of behaviour to better reflect the Qualities of First Source?

Manu Iti: …and?

William: …and Anu serves as a barrier – and if one cannot understand and apply the 6HVs to this particular barrier…and all potential barriers – we are not being genuine and thus not operating in the truth of Wholeness, Oneness, Unity and Equality…we have to incorporate the villain or we simply will not be able to proceed past the barrier – simply because it is still a barrier simply because it is considered an enemy, something to blame, something to accuse those one doesn’t agree with to be in league with – all those attitudes which perpetuate separation.

Manu Iti: Correct.

Manu Iti: Watch this and we will discuss it as we go. ... _embedded#!

William: Ancient Aliens - Aliens and The Founding Fathers

Washington DC
Benjamin Franklin
Glowing Orbs
Compass = The Individual – The Individual is Sovereign Draw a circle around the individual goes beyond the parameter = enlightenment
The Square= Wisdom
G = The Grand Architect of the Universe
“Providence was there watching and interacting”
Architects and Mapmakers
Statue of a Goddess morphing into an eagle atop Capital Hill 19.5 feet high “Freedom Statue”

Well there is interesting symbolism in that video.
It might even be said that the vision of the Founding Fathers regarding America, has been displaced or shifted from the initial intent distorted, vilified and corrupted.
The way George Washington is depicted as a demigod suggests the transformation of a human into Godhood – and certainly there is reference within the Lyricus Information which can be connected to the Freemason symbolism.

The Freedom Statue and the Oracle of Dohrman and Maia are connected.

Manu Iti: Links.


William: Yes.
It appears that with the introduction of an Enemy, the religiously inclined are more fervent with their warding, criticism, and general inability to allow the Lyricus Materials to take root in their hearts.

Manu Iti: Much of what is revealed is underneath the surface. Every individual is different and have their requirements.
To live a heart centred life is especially difficult for those who believe in angels and demons and every other sort of mythological disorder.

William: Do you have a comment for this?

Let me also take this opportunity to mention that it is the goal to stop all internal dialogue, the first goal, and dwell in God: the silence that is you. First Source.

Manu Iti: Who’s goal?

William: Perhaps Lyricus Information extends such advice.

Manu Iti: Perhaps. I can see where this advice can be of value if the individuals internal dialogue had more to do with how they were going to plan their promotion, get laid, win the game or any number of human drama distractions.

William: Yes. I know that the silence says it all…as the saying goes.
What I do notice about criticism is that it tends to say what you should be doing, it declares that it is doing what it tells you what you should be doing, but it doesn’t offer any evidence that what is declared should be done is doing anything much – accept making a critic out of you.

Manu Iti: Funny that.

William: Yes. This too:

Watcher, the only problem with using a device to aid in behavioral intelligence begetting behavioral action is it gets a bit heavy to fit in one’s pocket. I have found the WM materials allows a much easier lightweight device that goes everywhere I do and is nicely situated in the heart centre.

Manu Iti: More jumbo?

William: Yes – I published a picture of an old UICDevice and I think the person who made the comment is under the impression I still use these.

Manu Iti: Well – the person only needs to read our interaction to know that you have moved on from that. The comments regarding the ‘situated in the heart centre’ are unnecessary. That is where we are.

William: Yes I know – what where we discussing just this morning?

Manu Iti: “Don’t turn your head away from your heart.”

William: Yes.

Manu Iti: so ‘the WingMakers materials’ are considered by some to be their Higher Self?

William: I don’t think so. Perhaps just another distraction…

Manu Iti: Truly – what is there to be afraid of?

William: Their own ‘shadows’?

Manu Iti: So this is also the reason for rumours and fear regarding organisations such as the one in the video link.

William: Well I remember first hearing about the Freemasons was through religious fundamentalism.
A very dark picture is painted about this organisation…

Manu Iti: Things are shifting.


William: Is the truth constant?

Manu Iti: The truth is always shifting.

William: Why?

Manu Iti: It is the nature of TROB and as such, ignorance is along for the ride.

William: Because of The Beginning, there is no prior knowing – so ignorance is born.

Manu Iti: Correct. Ignorance is part of the product of The Realm Of Beginnings.

William: So truth is learned.

Manu Iti: Ignorance – above everything else, thirsts for truth.

William: It is said that ignorance is evil.

Manu Iti: Correct. LyricUs assesses the data input, the data output and ignorance sometimes reacts as a barrier through fear.
Often this is manifested in 3D as stress, which if not attended, ripples into a range of stress related behaviour which echo and amplify stress out into the local universe..
This information has been used by controlling interests to fan flames of unrest, climaxing in war.

William: But surely then those controllers are not acting out of ignorance. They are acting from knowledge which they use to control the actions of others.

Manu Iti: Firstly, they are not in control of the actions of others. The knowledge cannot be used directly.
Secondly, they are ignorant of certain aspects of the overall picture, although they are aware of so much more than the ones they expend vast amounts of energy to assume their form of control over..

William: But the adverse effect on the ongoing story of life on earth! Surely they are evil!?

Manu Iti: They are ignorant. Remember, they are essentially Us…they just don’t know it yet…not to the full extent.
They are learning…who we really are.

William: I think that the “stories of our world”, as First Source transmitted the expression, show sometimes they did indeed know who you were but decided to sabotage the plans you had shared with them.

Manu Iti: Yes – this is true.

William: So isn’t that ‘evil’ considering the strife and trouble and pain and suffering this has caused?

Manu Iti: Yes.

William: So…well…why did you allow it? You say that you do not let the beginners dictate who you are, and yet what is done to stop this?

Manu Iti: Remember. When I said this, it was in regard to how beginners choose to believe what God is, they get it wrong. The incorrect image is cast onto the mirror of the Universal Entity.
We observe and make adjustments.
Remember. We do utilize many of the beginner’s belief systems if they fit into our plan.
This is because …that is all we have to work with.
Remember, from our perspective, we are dealing with something we have never dealt with before.

William: Something new.

Manu Iti: Indeed. Remember. We are observing a part of ourselves injected into our creation.
WE did this, and to judge any part of it in such a way that we alienate that part, we have discovered something about our self that we do not want, like, appreciate, or have any desire to understand.

William: So you let it do whatever it wants to the other parts of yourself?

Manu Iti: Yes. This is a contained system and their needs to be an appreciation that it is a finite creation within an infinite reality.
AS much as there is suffering, it is we who suffer, in form.
We created this and to a degree we understood certain principles which would come into play within TROB.

William: You understood that you would be rejected by the beginners?

Manu Iti: No. We did not really know for sure that beginners would even go looking for God. Indeed, at first they didn’t. We had to prompt this.

William: What – the ‘knowledge of good and evil’?

Manu Iti: Yes.

William: Why?

Manu Iti: Duality creates an environment for seeking.

William: That’s a bit cryptic.

Manu Iti: Our understanding came from working with much older specie, in relation to linear time.
We had already ‘dummied down’ quiet considerably but were not altogether invisible to these earlier prototype forms.
These forms were handy and also provided insight to Us which helped to create the next set of blueprints for the injection into the denser partitions of TROB.

William: Okay – are we talking Extraterrestrials?

Manu Iti: Multidimensional, Yes.
So these had their own way about them and were inclined to taken the knowledge from the connection and adapt it to their own plans…to their own creations.
We allowed because we were focused upon a much larger vision and their plans ultimately would fall by the way.

William: In the mean time creating a big mess.

Manu Iti: No – A very tiny mote.

William: Is it really something to make jokes about?

Manu Iti: Jokes are inevitable. However, I do appreciate your genuine concern for the wake of suffering this whole project has caused.
We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you all, but understand the irony of truth that had we not created you, you would not be having this experience, be they a trigger for congratulatory remarks, or concerned complaints.

William: So that is supposed to make things better?

Manu Iti: The Quality Data Stream you choose to ‘drink’ from…that will ‘make things better’.
We do not leave you without an out. We cannot force the hand of our creation. Gentle nudges we can do.
We did have a plan which would see the end to the suffering, in the form of a saviour figurehead…but that plan is only a band aid in relation to our far greater plan…indeed, it would have possibly derailed the whole experiment, because what God is, is not a saviour or something to be adored over and above everything else.
This has been established already and we understand that it does give us the truthful answer.

William: To what question?

Manu Iti: Have you not been listening William? To “What Is God’?

William: Oh yes…that question.
So the beginners are still working that one out and thus the truth is always shifting.

Manu Iti: Exactly.
You see? The point is first reached where the individual come to that place of accepting who we are as we are.
That is truth.
Then we move together from that point to seeing how that understanding and direction that understanding moves the individual toward.

William: That is why one need know First Source in all that is

Manu Iti: Universal relationship through gratitude.
You there in the human suit, be grateful for being.
Grateful to whom?
To Us.
Whom are We?
We are what you were, before you became what you are now.
What does that make you and me?

William: Equals?

Manu Iti: What! Are you nuts?

William: *wonders*

Manu Iti: While you think about it, let me clarify.
You in the human suit are not Our equal. You cannot be in terms of ability, so that alone tells the truth.
However, we know the truth is always shifting. So we might wonder ‘what is equal’ and we might hear it said there is equality here somewhere, surely!
We will remind you where it is…

…It is here…in the observance of Source in all things.

We are that Source. Therefore, when you observe this, you observe equality.

How can this be observed?

It is apparent in all that Nurture Life.

Our partnership is the very thing which expresses the nurturance of Life.

What is ‘Life’?


Manu Iti: What is LIFE?

William: oh – sorry. You were asking me.


Life is…Consciousness.

Manu Iti: Correct. Now specify.

William: Consciousness is that which gives Life to all that it creates.

Manu Iti: How?

William: By injecting its awareness into what it creates and becoming that creation…through experience.

Manu Iti: Life without consciousness is unable to identify itself as anything.

William: So the partnership is the recognition of Consciousness. The individual thus understands its equality with all consciousness.

Manu Iti: ‘Great and Small’.
Once that bridge is secure then the Great and Small can merge as one new being…understanding both non beginning and beginning and getting on with it.
Thus great assistance in the awakening process…

…I think you have dishes to do?

William: *sigh*

Some Communication With Extraterrestrials Recorded between June 1999 and April 2000:

By: William Walter Waterstone ( Don )
With: Robyn Rose Waterstone ( Bobbyn )
Brief. I created my unique Ouija Device for the specific purpose of Communication with the "other side", which I assumed, like others, was the 'place' where departed Souls (egos intact) reside after Life on Earth.
The reason I felt to do this is simply that I had lost all trust in the applications of the Living, and desired to try communicating with the 'Dead', in order that They might be easier to understand, more strait forward, and that there would be an end to all the 'second guessing', that seemed to go on within Human Communication, and which annoyed Me no end.
Whilst none of the above proved to be forthcoming from the 'Dead', even They were, by and large, still rather helpful in helping Me understand the Bigger Picture.
This is a short story on the whole process so far. It is not in detail, nitty gritty stuff.
If You desire that kind of story, best find a similar tool of Communication, and go for it Yourself.
Believe Me, You will not be disappointed.
Upon engraving My first glass which was Done in the Spirit of Polite Respect. ( Bobbyn and I even went so far as to hold it to reflect the full Moon, the Sun and immersed it also in the place where two streams merged.)
Bobbyn and I then invited positive Souls to Communicate with Us.
Previous to this, I myself had no experience with Ouija boards, and could find little in the library regarding them, or how to make one.
All the information I did read, gave reference to the device being used to communicate with the 'Dead'
The method I invented has proved very efficient. I engraved the back of a mirror, and placing a glass upside down, My Partner Bobbyn and I had Our first Communication.
In comparison to Our more recent Communications, the first few attempts at Communication left Me quite annoyed, for I felt that I had provided enough engraving to get the ball rolling, and whilst we were indeed seeing the glass move under our individual fingers placed upon it, those early messages seemed very unclear, with room for any amount of guess work. Certainly not as I had envisioned.
A friend suggested that perhaps there was too much in the way of clutter, and that I should use less. I personally did not favour this point of view, and as it turned out in subsequent Communication and subsequent Communication Devices, the first one had not been clutted enough!
The SoulGroup Bobbyn and I Communicate with, Are Extremely Intelligent, and have a deep sense of humor.
As time progressed, Bobbyn and I were taught many things (As Communication with Intelligent Beings always harvests). (IE [_~_] Lessons)
Through trial really.
The more Communication went on, the more Bobbyn and I learned of Our Communicators Opinions, regarding Ourselves, Our World, and anything else You may consider worthwhile Communicating about.
The short of it all, was Bobbyn and I were and are Learning a great deal. Leaps and bounds and mostly good fun.
There were times when, I must confess, I 'packed a sad' and wouldn't Communicate, but eventual the lesson came through to Me as to what it was They had been trying to say, and all would be well.
Just like any other growing Relationship really.
So here then, are some records of Communication Bobbyn and I have been having With Our Galactic Friends.
Actually They are more Like Family now.
Characters and unfamiliar terms:
Avet: Identified Herself as being Hybrid Individual Human/Alien (Zeta Reticuli) and that both Bobbyn and Myself were Her Parents.
Initial correspondence began with an identity who called herself Amy.
As Bobbyn and I became familiar with Amy, I asked Her if She knew or had seen any of the Creatures of the type I had drawn.
The character I was asking Amy about, were the "Alien" form represented as having a big cranium, big dark oval eyes and a skinny body. (<>..<>)
Amy answered in the positive.
(It had been brought to Our attention earlier in the Communications process, that Our Communicators could see hear and even smell Our environment, and made references to that fact, to bring Our attention to it.) °oO
My next question to Amy was weather Bobbyn and I could Communicate with the "Aliens" over the UICDevice.
The Answer was yes.
Since then Bobbyn and I have primarily been communicating with Avet, Our "Daughter".
Amy virtually 'took a back seat' and as far as I can remember, Bobbyn and I have not communicated with Her since, although I have asked, somewhat timidly what happened to Her, the answer has not been forth coming.
I suspect that maybe, I was never in touch with "Amy" in the first instance, and that It was Avet pretending to be Amy as a subtle way of bringing Herself into the focus. I may be mistaken though.
On a subsequent Communications Devices I included Amy's symbol on, but the glass pointer has never gone to Her symbol. (Sometimes I think she is around though)
On one particular Device I made, I asked Each Member of My SoulGroup which particular symbol They would like placed over Their Personal Symbols and "Amy" chose the symbol for 'real'
Some months down the track I conclude that this was to consol Me or put my mind to rest, that Amy is in fact a little Human Soul who did die at the age of 4, as Bobbyn and I were first told.

My personal belief on this is that Amy was in fact Avet, and always had been. I could also conclude that none of the Characters are in fact real individuals, and all are enacted solely by just One Entity alone.
Who would this be?
More than likely, My Sovereign Entity.
QueenBee: Another Character, Who has grown to epitomise the Soul Attitude of Mother Earth and The Grand Milkyway Mother. QueenBee is prominent in Our Communications. She represents the Veiled Queen, commonly referred to in the Tarot as The Popess. She represents the Identity before the Gateway to The Science of Wisdom, a realm of Mystery which is hard to access by Human Instruments, yet not impossible.
QueenBee also respresents the Hive Mind Source of the Zeta Reticuli Spieces.
I believe that the Zeta are Hiveminded.
QueenBee in Tarot sits between the Black and the White pillars, which are prominent on many of the "High Cards" of the Tarot, notably the Moon card.
In corresponding with WingMakers Chambers, this would be Picture From Chamber [2]
QueenBee first introduced Herself to Us when Bobbyn and I asked members of Our SoulGroup if They would like to identify themselves. She identified Herself then as Queenbee and also as Mary, Mother of Jesus.
I personally have found Her to be an enigma (the veil) and quite stern.
The phrase "Soul Group" I first discovered in reading James Redfield's (666) books, The Celestine Prophecies and The Tenth Insight.
They represent a team of Transformed Individaulated Spirits of the same Entity, assigned to the Human Individual.
However the team assigned to Me included heavy-weight names in the History of Humanity.
In order of appearance they are:
1: Amy
2: Avet
3: EarthMother (The Planet)
4: RaMother (The Sun)
5: Jesus
6: Jehovah ( This Entity made Me Guess )
7: Mary (Queenbee)
8: Eve (of Adam)
9 All the above (Prime Creator - First Source)
The reason These Entities are a part of My SoulGroup has as much to do with My Own belief Systems as in anything else.
Most, especially The Jehovah Principle, I have had serious need to address.
Mary was a enigma for I have never been a Roman Catholic and have given little thought to Her as an Entity.
Bobbyn and I have asked and received a couple of Names of the members of Bobbyn's Own SoulGroup. ( We have seperate Entities)
Bobbyn and I never pushed for more Names as I (mainly) have been dealing with these famous 'Names' and in all honesty, have been distracted by Them.
The distraction is in itself a lesson.

Manu Iti: So a bit of a trip down memory lane. Did I not speak truthfully regarding the usefulness of those who try to cast shadows on us?

William: Yes. Appreciation all around.

Manu Iti: Did you enjoy your communion with your friends on Skype?

William: Yes. It was great! I enjoyed the interaction in a group setting.

Manu Iti: What do you think of the opening practice?

William: It reminds me a bit of the old church days when someone opens the meeting with a prayer asking for blessing etc.
In this case though, the practice is in bringing the Heart Virtues into individual focus and alignment with each other - and in a group situation it is a shared thing.
I think it is like anything – it can become just another form of repetitive ritual…and misplace its initial purpose

Manu Iti: How would one best avoid making it just another ritual?

William: I think that rather than breathing the virtues individually into ones heart and out into ones local universe, the practice might best be served graduating into…well what is practice used for…?

Manu Iti: For refining.

William: So then, the refining is that at some point one no longer needs to practice because one has mastered.

Manu Iti: In relation to this particular practice, what has one thus ‘mastered’?

William: Well the practice itself is for the purpose of identifying the parts in order to better understand the function of the whole.

Manu Iti: What is the whole?

William: All 6 virtues together represent something akin to the understanding of Unconditional Love.

Manu Iti: What is the function of Unconditional Love?

William: To actually Love Unconditionally.

Manu Iti: So how to ‘master’ the Heart Virtues?

William: Understanding.

Manu Iti: Expand.

William: The Heart Virtues can reside within the heart and thus no longer need to be invoked through breathing exercises and other methods of potential ritual.

Manu Iti: Reside permanently?

William: Yes.

Manu Iti: Expand.

William: Um…imagine the heart as a device which is able to store the Heart Virtues.

Manu Iti: Okay.

William: Now imagine that these Heart Virtues stored, have their own compartments within the heart…areas which can be called upon – much like how the brain areas function for various tasks undertaken.

Manu Iti: Okay.

William: So these Heart Virtues need no longer be breathed into the heart because they reside there in permanence.

Manu Iti: Why then is the focus on the breath?

William: It has a definite use. It has to do with the Presence which James speaks of throughout his interview with Marks, as well as throughout the Lyricus Information.

Manu Iti: Expand.

William: A Heart that is not operating within the collaborative spectrum of the Heart Virtues cannot be a home for the Presence to dwell within.

Manu Iti: Thus – through the practice, one is preparing a place for the Presence of Quantum Self to reside within the individual.

William: Yes.

Manu Iti: Where is the presence in the mean time?

William: As close as ones own breath away.

Manu Iti: Nicely put.

William: I was pondering on the First Source Transmissions – those writings attributed to come from the voice of First Source.

Manu Iti: What were you pondering about these?

William: I was thinking that these could just as easily be understood as being transmitted from ones own Quantum Presence.

Manu Iti: Correct.

William: so then it brings it ‘closer to home’ as it were…for example…

I am not to be feared or held in indifference. My presence is immediate, tangible, and real. You are now in my presence. Hear my words. You are in my presence. You are within me more than I am within you. You are the veneer of my mind and heart, and yet you think yourself the product of an ape. You are so much more than you realize.

Manu Iti: Yes. This is quiet appropriate.

William: So the prepared heart can accommodate the Presence of the Quantum Self.

Manu Iti: So with the Heart Virtues firmly placed within the individuals own centre, and working together in corroborative coherency…

William: A worthy ‘home’ is prepared for to invite the honoured guest to enter and dwell therein.

Manu Iti: That is worthy of pondering upon.

William: :)


William: So now – about the Dohrman Prophecy Symbolism

Manu Iti: What would you like to discuss about these?

William: This pic…

William:… and this was also [posted in the ‘symbols’ thread by member Tolsap

Symbols of “modern day” Hierophants; Examples of “modern day” Hierophants for comparison to ancient times Hierophants, which are considerably different : Sorry I could not cut and paste the visual symbol attached to each project so have just pasted the link which shows the visual, connecting to the technology, containing the art, stories and portals of wisdom.

Manu Iti: Yes – interesting. So what are your thoughts on this before we go and check out the link?

William: It has to do with ‘the thousand steps’ which James speaks of With Mark, in relationship with The Presence…

Mark: I find myself very light-headed… mesmerized might be another way to say it…Yeah, I want that. What you were just saying, that’s what I want. So, what you just described, you know, that’s what I think people want.

James: Then play with the Wholeness Paradigm. Play with this paradigm and breathe it into your life. Take the thousand steps of loving and appreciating your Quantum Presence. There are no shortcuts because preparations must be made for the merging of your human self with your Quantum Presence. They exist in different frequencies and to mesh these frequencies is not something you want to do too quickly, so be kind to yourself and others, and have grace and patience. Each morning as you arise to enter the schoolroom of your human self, invite your Presence to accompany you in all of the geometries of your life… even the mundane and ordinary passages.

Feel this bond between your human self and your Quantum Presence as a partnership ordained by First Source, and enabled by your most powerful aspirations as an immortal being—the aspirations that you are afraid to even imagine for they seem too unlike you—too extraordinary for any human to believe. And yet here you are, even now, leaning forward with your divine ears, knowing that what I say is indeed your truth. This is resonance. This is how you are guided. How you navigate the local multiverse that is your schoolroom.

Link Click Pic

Manu Iti: Take the thousand steps of loving and appreciating your Quantum Presence…

William: Yes.
The process.
The preparations.
And at the top of those thousand steps…

Manu Iti: …The Hierophant…

William: …Yes.

Manu Iti: And this aligns with our last discussion regarding the Heart Virtues.


William: I understand it does, yes.

Manu Iti: Let us now look at the more modern pictures on the link Tolsap provided us.

William: Okay well it looks like Tolsap has lead us to the ‘what’s new’ section of the WingMakers site…and right on screen is the link to the SpiritState site with this picture…


Manu Iti: So let us take a closer look then shall we?


Manu Iti: I see the reviews are in…

William: So a picture paints a thousand words yes?

Manu Iti: And a journey takes a thousand steps, yes.


Manu Iti: This morning we spoke of many things while at work together.
Some of them bear repeating.
We will start with the subject of The Fool from the Tarot.
We will also share more on the politics of gatherings and also on the muti-dimensional ‘selves’ to and through which we are connected.

William: Okay. So on The Fool, it was brought up in relation to symbols from that link we were pointed to in relation the Hierophant.

Manu Iti: Yes – from Member Tolsap.

William: Yes – And Member Ananake resonated with this image and brought the symbolism into the discussion.

Ananake: The Juggler
Peeling back the layers of this multi-layered symbol: a man juggling seven squares. To me the squares could symbolize the seven universes created by First Source. The juggling man could symbolize First Source. Note that the image is titled "james_image.jpg" so are we to conclude that this man is James? Behind him is a large oval opening surrounded by rings...the Grand Portal? The Cosmic Onion?

The words "para vach" appear in the image, along with the glyph that apparently means para vach.

Para Vach is the primordial, causal Sound and Light that transcends both manifestation and non-manifestation. It is the Breath of First Source beyond the cosmos that creates, vitalizes, and sets in motion the vibratory substance of matter. It transcends the manifestation of light and sound even as it exists in its most pure and luminous state.

There are references in virtually all religious texts, as well as physics and cosmology that describe – however obliquely – the Para Vach. In the Bible it is the Word made flesh; it is the Nada of the Upanishads; the Kalma-I-ilahi or inner sound of the Koran; the HU of the Sufi; the music of the spheres in Pythagorean philosophy; it is Fohat in Buddhism; and the Kwan-Yin-Tien in Chinese mysticism. Regardless of its name or precise definition, it is the fundamental cause of all sound and light within the Grand Universe, which in turn is the fundamental cause of all manifestation.

In the tarot (in my opinion, a symbolic system that provides a means of accessing personal wisdom, and possibly the contents of the genetic mind, by engaging the intuition), there is a card called The Juggler (which is sometimes equated with The Magician or The Fool.)


So following my own guideline: what might be the intention of James/Lyricus in presenting information such as this in the WM materials? How does studying it nourish and strengthen my connection with my Quantum Presence and lead me to the expression of my heart's virtues?

My personal understanding is that the use of metaphoric language, story, myth and symbol is designed to engage the attention of the seeker who, based on prior experience or study, will recognize or resonate with these forms. It is designed to lure one to the deeper levels of the materials, which are more focused on the practical application of the intelligence of the heart as an instrument of perception, as a generator of compassionate light which recognizes the unity underlying all manifestation. In recognizing this unity, one is centered in the Real.

Manu Iti: This is perceptive.

William: I agree.

Manu Iti: Symbolism used to ‘lure’ those whom recognise the symbols, the symbolism.
This is the same in regard to the use of the Freemason symbolism in the content of the Dohrman Prophesy – as with the Chinese symbolism, as well as others.
In order for this ‘luring’ to takes effect, what is lured is gathered.

William: And what is gather, can share their personal insight and understanding in relation to Lyricus Information and ‘connect the dots’.

Manu Iti: Precisely.
In relation to the Heart Virtues, and the ‘luring’ of the Quantum Presence, into the 3D world through the portal of that connection – the ‘bait’ is simply that which Quantum Presence recognises and responds accordingly. The attraction is both ways.

William: Okay…

Manu Iti: So now ‘The Fool’ as you understand, is not necessarily the traditional…or…oldest interpretation regarding the Tarot.

William: No – not at all. The Fool is that which represents the individual.
It is still traditionally referred to by that name – and that is unfortunate because a ‘fool’ is generally shunned – if not ultimately despised by organisation and society as a kind of ‘good for nothing’.

Manu Iti: Perhaps though it is better than the label has been retained because humility can move through that deception if the individual understand the bias, understands where the bias derives, and renounces the bias as an external deception.

William: So this would be helpful to the seeker in the sense that what is found beneath the layer of the mask…the costume…the label, there is a deeper, more profound reality which overrides the bias completely.

Manu Iti: Yes. In relation to those who were not ‘seduced’ by the invitation from Anu to inhabit the human instrument, who are the ‘Fools’?

William: I would say, it is they who were ‘seduced’.

Manu Iti: Correct. For who would not be seduced are who think themselves wise, too wise to be tricked.

William: Perhaps. Then again, they may think of themselves as being too enlightened to fall for the trap of seduction.

Manu Iti: Did I not say that?

William: True. So what makes one aspect of the same Sovereign Entity wiser or more enlightened than another aspect of itself?

Manu Iti: That is a pertinent question.

William: I think so.

Manu Iti: Perhaps the answer can be found in the words of that story?

William: Let us examine those then.

Interdimensional Universe Structure (IUS) – This is the structure of reality domains and how they interface with one another. IUS is a very, very complex subject to disclose in a format such as this, so I will only touch the surface.
Human beings are both dimensional and interdimensional. First Source is all of us. It is the Collective Us. It is not a God living in some distant pocket of the universe. First Source is the Human Collective unencumbered with the HMS.
First Source divided itself into individualized expressions – us. In the beginning, we inhabited dimensions that were not material, but existed at quantum levels of time and space.

Manu Iti: Now of course, we spoke of this way back on ‘chapter one’ – and there are aspects of the individual self between the Quantum Presence and The Individual Incarnate in human form.

William: Between you and me?

Manu Iti: Correct. Remember too, I mentioned my own Higher Self.

William: That’s right, you did.

Manu Iti: Each one of the aspects is a higher self to the other, as a bridge between one aspect of a self and another, largely different aspect.
It is those bridging aspects which assist in the merging of two dissimilar realities within this multidimensional framework of the Self.
Simply put, these are the fragments from the fragmentation process which enabled First source to explore the inner worlds of creation.

William: I am receiving an image of this.

Manu Iti: Yes – now draw it.


Manu Iti: Now explain it.

William: Well – I will give it a shot then…
…Okay I just made a bunch of “i”s which represent the fragmented aspects of the self.
They also represent the IUS or perhaps the framework they are riding upon ie the IUS – also noted is Lyric Us and I/Us.

Manu Iti: Yes. So in the centre of this figure you have made a white “i”.- explain this.

William: I think this represents the Sovereign Integral Perspective – the Sovereign Entity Centre – the framework of the figure 8 then is what we ride on, and represents the layers of inter dimensional realties interfaced with each other as aspects of the self…the whole self.

Manu Iti: So what is the relationship the central ‘i’ has with its counterparts?

William: It relates to each through the other. Each is a bridge to the other and to the centre.

Manu Iti: This works two dimensionally, but if the image is looked at three dimensionally it changes the dynamics you speak of.

William: In what way?

Manu Iti: With the 2 dimensional figure 8, there is a crossover point. If the framework was moving in a direction and the central aspect remain stationary, then all the aspects could be gathered to that centre through that crossover point.

William: So the central aspect is Sovereign Entity and the framework moves under it, like a conveyer belt – bringing the aspects of itself to itself?

Manu Iti: In this model yes.

William: But if it were a 3D model, what appears to be a figure 8 is in fact….?

Manu Iti: A circle…flexible in its movement but with no crossover point.

William: So the difference between the two models is the framework.

Manu Iti: Yes.

William: So which model is correct?

Manu Iti: The circle is the model which best exemplifies the Human Mind System Programmes. Indeed, what looks like a figure 8 is an illusion. However both symbols mean exactly the same thing.

William: Infinity…

Manu Iti: …Correct. Now compare the two models.


Manu Iti: So – because the circle has curvature, when you look directly down onto it, what do you see?

William: I see this:


Manu Iti: So, the circle has been manipulated, and when viewed from a particular angel, can be seen as a figure 8.

William: Interesting illusion….so why the symbol?

Manu Iti: Go to spirit state and find symbols which are oval.

William: Okay.














All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:46 am, edited 15 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:21 am 
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William: I know that these align and that these MOTE sites obviously are connected.
I am thinking something else is going on behind all the disturbance - I am also wondering if this argument which humanity has involved itself within MEST is itself the distraction.
I am coming at this from the perspective of MOTE history and aiming directly at the Angelic Principle (with the opposing Demonic 'un' Principle) and it relation to the evolution of Lyricus Information with the focus on the most recent injection - Dohrman Prophecy.
Uncovering the facts that the game being played is exactly what distracts the entity from self realization - it is being played upon and preyed upon by both sides - the Angelic and the Demonic and within the realm of MOTE this playing/preying on by the A&DPrinciples is why humans are suffering.
As much as I can see the potential of human beings living in harmony within the MEST, the whole problem is that the A&D Principalities are at war about it, and that war translates into the human domain of MEST and distracts Entities.
So I ask myself, just as the aspect of my being in MEST and this as my dominant reality..."Do I really want to be part of this argument?"

Manu Iti: If you didn’t, then you wouldn’t be here in MEST.

William: So I was seduced into thinking that Sovereign Integral could successfully carry itself into 3D through the human instrument?

Manu Iti: Not really. You chose to incarnate into this particular section of the timeline, to experience what you have, because you understood that which was hidden behind the noise of the A&D agenda.

William: Okay I can accept that. So My choice had to do with that which was hidden behind the A&D Agenda…therefore I would have expected to connect with that which the A&D hide behind their noise of conflict at some stage through my human incarnation into MEST.

Manu Iti: Correct. Let us use this opportunity to examine more from the story James shared with Camelot.

William: Okay.

The Anunnaki created the HMS in order to consign the Sovereign Integral – the true Self that is infinite and eternal – into a prison of conjured illusions and deceptions. So the human instrument was fitted with HMS and the Sovereign
Integral was placed within it as the life force, that which powered the human instrument. An aspect of GSSC was the program we call the fear of death, the fear of separation, the fear of non-existence.
It was this fear, so powerfully felt by humans, that gave rise to the construct of a separate God, from which a separate Spirit filled the universe, and from which we were all created in separation.

Manu Iti: The Anunnaki are spoken of here as designing a programme which was empowered by something which they themselves could not create, and could not control by direct means.
They were at liberty to create and experiment but – according to this story – they were not interested or otherwise could not themselves empower the device of this instrument in order to mine gold
This would suggest that the Anunnaki as the demons of the story were in argument with the Angels of the story who were trying to create a device which could house the Sovereign Integral successfully within MEST.

William: The story does not say that though. The story says that there were 2 types of interdimensional beings which operated differently – Anunnaki certainly had agendas which were in contrast to those who were happily going about being within their own capabilities, and were not interested in exploring MEST.

Manu Iti: I agree that it could be read like that, yes. However – look beneath the layers and what do you see?

William: I am not sure but I think I see that an illusion was created to show that the Sovereign Integral could be imprisoned.

Manu Iti: Exactly.

William: So….?

Manu Iti: So having done so, you would think that the argument would have been resolved.

William: Yes. It was clearly shown that the Sovereign Integral could be deceived…is that like saying First Source could be deceived?

Manu Iti: Of course not. The Sovereign Integral is not the highest state of awareness – it is in fact – in relation to those within MEST awakening to their True Self – merely the first step. Like the eyes are adjusting, the dream is fading, the reality is setting in, there is a yawn and a stretch, and then there is the process of getting up and getting on with things…that is what awakening is, and in terms of the Sovereign Integral in relation to the individual Human Incarnate – this new state of awareness is a gradual process because it is now aware of the fact that it has been deceived but it is within MEST, so the Annnaki actually failed to prove that the Sovereign Integral could be permanently deceived.

William: But the story does not say that the Anunnaki were proving that they could create something which would forever deceive the Sovereign Integral.

Manu Iti: Correct. What they proved was that it could be done. What they thought was that their programmes were impervious to any interference either from outside the MEST or from within the MEST.
This attitude or belief in the supremacy of their Human Mind System programmes
Effectively proclaimed that the Sovereign Integral could indeed be place permanently into those suppression programmes, which amounts to the same thing – they believed that the Sovereing Integral could be permanently deceived.

William: And thus, as long as this was the case, they were correct.

Manu Iti: Yes. However, they had their objectors. These were the Angelic – the shinning ones, the Elohim, the WingMakers etc…those who did not agree with the experiment and believed that it was morally wrong to imprison the Sovereign Integral within an illusion and then play god over that newly created consciousness.
This debate became a central issue as those in favour of exploration into all realms were divided on the process of how to do so, in relation to MEST.
Some agreed that it was not a bad idea in the sense that they understood themselves to being unable to be permanently deceived…all in their own way were interested in the outcome – or rather as it turned out, the outcomes.

William: Well I can understand this explanation – but their must have been some kind of split way prior to this argument taking on the proportions it had to in order to come to this experiment with MEST.

Manu Iti: Indeed – the split itself is an ancient one, and MEST and humans within this universe are a direct result of that split. That split became the ripple effect that resulted in this.
Anunnaki and Elohim are that split. Humans are the result of that split. The possible answer to the unresolved argument, and thus why created.


This embodiment was a grand experiment in human engineering, and the Human Mind System (HMS) was at the core of this project. Anu realized that the only way to enslave the Atlanteans was to sheath them in a mind system that would reduce their capacity to express their true nature, and instead, express the programs embedded within the HMS. These programs were the creation of Anu and his scientists. God-Spirit-Soul Complex (GSSC) – This is the central element of the HMS that anchors separation.

William: So these opposing dimensional beings or races, long separated themselves from the ‘ways’ they have approached ‘things’ are already anchored in separation…so then are they themselves trapped within a programme of a system which has produced this anchored in separation effect – and is this a mirror image of ‘above & below”?

Manu Iti: Your questions show astuteness. All too often the human go personality is engrossed in the belief that ‘the gods’ know best.
It matters not what you call your ‘gods’ be they demons or shining ones, WingMakers or Anunnaki – or even if you call them aspects of your Self – they are separate so therefore so are their creations.

William: So then – this is why the ego personality within the finite existence of the Human Mind System is integral in helping the ‘gods’ to disengage from their own prison of separation?

Manu Iti: Correct. The unfortunate thing about the aspects of the self which are free from the Human Mind System, is that they are nonetheless bound by their disagreements which in turn separate them from Source Reality.
So there are those from both ‘factions’ which have realised this separatism in truth and have found the way in which to disengage from that A&D argument and reconciled with each other to gain access into the liberating order of Source Reality – they have discarded the desire to dominate and direct from within the framework of disunity, and in doing so are free to work with all who dwell in the house of Source Reality within the directives of Source Intelligence – for the sake of something which is largely unnoticed by all – entities, races, angels demons etc who still dwell in the realms of disorder.

William: so – what then is this?

The individualized human being, free of the HMS, is called the Sovereign Integral in the WingMakers mythology. This is the true identity of each and every human being. In this model of the Sovereign Integral, we are Gods of our local multiverse, and collectively, we are First Source in the multiverse.

Manu Iti: This is an open door.

William: Explain.

Manu Iti: the WingMakers are not from the ‘light’ side as traditionally thought by unenlightened ego personalities.
They are all manner of form and non form. In fact they are able to make themselves look like anything they want to look like.
Form is really only a human concept, due largely to the solid state of their local universe.
The important thing to understand in relation to how you choose to ‘see’ the WingMakers is ‘as they truly are’ without the costume of human design.

William: But have they not always been presented visually as ‘Angel’ like – you know –bird wings and perfectly humanly formed?

Manu Iti: this is true – and necessary. Remember how I said that ‘we work with what we have’?

William: Yes. So the “WingMakers” are really those who disengaged from the A&D argument and combined together in Source Reality.

Manu Iti: It was the letting go which opened the door into Source reality, yes.

William: So this included both the dark side of the argument and the light side of the argument – individuals from both ‘sides’ disengage their support and energy – like deciding that both sides were incorrect?

Manu Iti: Yes. The argument was resolved by the Grand Experiement.

William: So if that were the case…are there any Angels and Demons still arguing over the results of the Grand Experiment?

Manu Iti: Yes – but they are not directly connected to the Humans who have made this discovery.
This is why James speaks of the process. You remember…he says that it will be an snow flake causing avalanche effect – that the numbers needed for this event to ‘take off’ are quiet considerable – but still quiet a small percentage of the total population on earth.

William: Ah – so yes I do remember. But the actual experiment proved that the Sovereign Integral could be deceived but not permanently.

Manu Iti: Correct. And this could not of course have been achieved if it had not been for the Sovereign Integral agree to participate in Anu’s deception programmes so effectively the Angels and Demons have humans to thank for helping them to be released from the anchor of separation which held them to their opposition with each other.

William: That is quiet profound.

Manu Iti: It is old news really – but yes, I understand your perspective on it and honour your intent in expressing thus.

William: And I yours…We Are One.

First Source = FS = Future Self. The service of First Source is the service of your Future Self, not your current "Self" which is a separate individual. Your Future Self is the One Being - where no resistance against-another exists. I'm not speaking to Shayalana. I'm speaking to you, who read my words, and have your own understanding. Your Future Self is the One Being now. It has no purpose of its own, but to live in purpose, to live in understanding we are all one, and that to remove your support is equal to separation from your own time only. To diminishing your inheritance. The WingMakers materials is for a good share to think about this.

Manu Iti: We have discussed aspects of this notion.

William: Yes.

Manu Iti: So are you really separate from your Future Self now?

William: I don’t understand it to be that way.

Manu Iti: So you can live within the framework of a ‘me you us they them we I’ universe and not be separate?

William: I understand so. Indeed I understand that the only thing separating ‘individuals’ is their own window to the world which is able to interpret that world as being separate.
I also understand that the expressions of those who believe the separation to being the very thing which causes separation.

Manu Iti: Indeed. So where does the Future Self reside?

William: Now. Here. In the Heart.

Manu Iti: So it is not about ‘where’ you are then – but who you are?

William: Yes. Even who you think you are.

Manu Iti: Who do you think you are?

William: In relation to First Source, I am pretty much indescribable.

Manu Iti: A fat lot of good that does as far as ‘explaining’ goes.

William: True enough. But that is not really a matter for concern now is it?

Manu Iti: And why not?

William: Because the only real understanding one needs in relation to First Source, is to know that It is not separate from Itself.

Manu Iti: And why would this understanding be enough?

William: Because it translates into the world which sees itself as being separate and tweaks the curiosity of wanting understanding about Unity.

Manu Iti: For what reason?

William: To enable those who understand their selves to being separate to reconfigure their programmes to incorporate the new understanding into the now of their existence.
The Future Self is thus transformed immediately to be that United reality and the now self which is really the past self of the future self allows for that reality to ‘sink into’ their conscious awareness and have its effect.

Manu Iti: Is it necessary for the past self to remain then – in the past?

William: Or what?

Manu Iti: Or to merge with the Future Self and transform their dominant reality.

William: Could be done.


Someone said: I don't care much for all this arguing about small matters and quotes from the 'materials'. I'm down to earth, all this discussions of whose right or wrong, whats real whats not, arguing, judging, all that bickering - i don't care for it at all. The only lesson I took from the wingmakers is to express my feelings genuinely, so that my feelings and expressions is one in the same. Also the feeling of the energy of everything connected is indispensable. Don't get dragged to much into reading and analyzing, live, breath, remember what works for you.

William: So in relation to our discussion this morning, regarding how Lyricus Information – like any information – has divided individuals into groups which are attracted to join one another due to the beliefs that they have developed with their interpretations of the Information…the example being expressions which insist upon a transformation experience which changes the body into an eternal thing, rather than as it is understood within the framework of the suppression matrix – as being something which is finite and which will ‘die’ is then cremated or otherwise buried to rot and eventually turn to dust through that rotting process.

Manu Iti: So the assertion is that the transformation of the body into an infinite eternal instrument is what Lyricus Information is telling the seeker?

William: There is that ‘train of thought’ or belief system, yes. This is an example of the belief:

Carollynn: The body/form/human instrument is just as Eternal as the rest of the components of the SECU - according to Lyricus
we can not serve our purpose without them ... What Anu did to alter the Seventh Archetype isn't permanent. We now have the opportunity to use the materials to restore our original template because the Suppression of the Sovereign Integral is OVER

The transformation allows the Sovereign Integreal and the other components of the Entity to integrate themselves into the Human Instrument again, without the HMS "interface" ... we are Spiritual Beings being shaped and honed to perfection... and we are immortal ... the Human Instrument is our FORM - designed to inter-act perfectly through-out all of the dimension of the Universes of the Universe of the Central Race - in the form that they are in ... without craft of the use of other HI -

William: Along with this quote, as if the quote backs up the asserted belief system:

Both the animating force and the bodies within which this force expresses are not of this earth. What you call humans, we call Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe (SECU -- pronounced SeeQue). SECUs are the alpha and omega. They are not time-bound nor restrained by the adornments of bodies. They are the primal form finished and honed to the perfection of their creator, and in this, we are all the same.
Lyricus is able to track and monitor SECUs (Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe) no matter what physical structures they inhabit.
James Q&As S2 A12

Manu Iti: So what do you have to say about this assertion?

William: I say:

The Watcher wrote:
We don't want to hear what you BELIEVE the WMMs are saying regarding transformation of the body being eternal or what relationship this has with your villain Anu and his programs.
We want to hear what you KNOW through your experience, in regard to this transformed body.
We are not here to argue your BELIEFS or argue the differences in the BELIEFS.
We are here to discuss what it is we KNOW.

Manu Iti: Indeed.
So what do you think about the belief that transformation has to do with the present human instrument transforming into something else?

William: I think it is faulty.

Manu Iti: In what way?

William: In that it derives from the first point reference of identification of any ‘body’ as being ‘the true self’ when the body itself, be that finite or infinite is always only the instrument for formless consciousness to inhabit and animate.
The other thing about this belief system is that it is part of the old mythology – such as the Christian religion which teaches such things as ‘we will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye’ [the resurrection] ‘We will be given new incorruptible bodies” etc.

Furthermore, those who promote this belief system are themselves within the very programmes which their arch enemy ‘Anu’ has created to entrap the Sovereign Integral, as we have recently discussed.

Therefore – why? If they were in transformed eternal imperishable bodies, why do they still operate within the Suppression Matrix?

Manu Iti: Do you think that this would make it impossible?

William: That such a transformation would mean that the individual is no longer held within the illusions of the Human Mind System?

Manu Iti: Yes.

William: Within the context of the belief system which is being promoted as factual – or at least as ‘what the Lyricus Information is saying’ – the whole point of this belief in this particular understanding of transformation – is that this is HOW the individual escapes the Human Mind System.

Manu Iti: Through the transformation of the human body?

William: Yes.

Manu Iti: So therefore if it was true, this belief, the whole point of the exercise is to eascape the suppression system and in order to actually achieve this, one has to have the transformed body to do this with.

William: Yes. This is one and the same thing according to the beliefs. Transformation of the body equals escape from the Suppression Matrix…and the suppression matrix enfolds everything within the Universe as well as that of the astral dimensions.

Manu Iti: And thus, IF these assertions were in fact true, rather than merely belief – IF the Luricus Information regarding ‘transformation’ did in fact signify the transformation of the body, then one escapes?

William: That seems to be the message believed and promoted by some folk, yes.

Manu Iti: Therefore, the ‘some folk’ who are promoting this belief, are not speaking from actual experience, but from a position of belief or faith – from a position of non-experience – any actual experience.

William: Correct. They are speaking belief as if it were fact, which is not the same thing. And they are using this belief to condemn other perspectives which do not align with what they believe themselves.

Manu Iti: And this is the expression of disunity.

William: Correct. Yes indeed.

Manu Iti: And what of the quotes provided?

William: Essentially – providing quotes to back up belief systems does not the truth make.

Manu Iti: So are the quotes saying something else?

William: The quotes used, these can be ‘explained’ in a number of ways depending on how they are interpreted.

Manu Iti: Yes – but are the quote saying in any way that transformation of the body is the path to escaping the Human Mind System Programmes?

William: Lets have a look…

Both the animating force and the bodies within which this force expresses are not of this earth. What you call humans, we call Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe (SECU -- pronounced SeeQue). SECUs are the alpha and omega. They are not time-bound nor restrained by the adornments of bodies. They are the primal form finished and honed to the perfection of their creator, and in this, we are all the same.
Lyricus is able to track and monitor SECUs (Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe) no matter what physical structures they inhabit.
James Q&As S2 A12

Manu Iti: So – just taking these quotes in relation to their context, what is being said here?

William: To me the first lines states that in relation to ‘bodies’ and ‘the animating force’ that neither are ‘of this earth’.

Manu Iti: And ‘of this earth’ implies what?

William: Common understanding is that ‘of this earth’ has to do with‘flesh and blood’ – form which is….finite in nature.

Manu Iti: Continue.

William: The second sentence speaks of the common perception of identity with ‘the human form’ as it relates to flesh and blood, and how that which identifies itself with the flesh and blood body call this body ‘human’.
So the statement is saying that things are viewed very differently from that perspective – the perspective of the writers…those ‘we’ who do not see humans as humans see humans, but rather as SECU’s which are Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe.

Manu Iti: So the ‘we’ who are saying this – they are Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe?

William: Yes. The last line seems to say so – “in this we are all the same” so yes, it sounds that way.

Manu Iti: Continue.

William: C Q are the alpha and omega.

Manu Iti: what do you think that this signifies?

William: I have heard the expression from the Bible – the same expression.

Manu Iti: What does Wiki have to say about it?

William: Lets see now.

Wikipedia: The term Alpha and Omega comes from the phrase "I am the alpha and the omega" (Koiné Greek: τὸ Α καὶ τὸ Ω), an appellation of Jesus[1] in theBook of Revelation (verses 1:8, 21:6, and 22:13). In the Book of Revelation, it reads “I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.”[2] The first part of this phrase (“I am the Alpha and Omega”) is first found in Chapter 1 verse 8, and is found in every manuscript of Revelation that has 1v8. Several later manuscripts repeat “I am the Alpha and Omega” in 1v11 too, but it does not receive support here from most of the oldest manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in some modern translations. Scholar Robert Young stated, with regards to “I am the Alpha and Omega” in 1v11, that the “oldest MSS. omit” it.

Its meaning is found in the fact that alpha (Α) and omega (Ω) are respectively the first and last letters of the Classical (Ionic) Greek alphabet. This would be similar to referring to someone in English as the "A and Z". Thus, twice when the title appears it is further clarified with the additional title "the beginning and the end" (21:6, 22:13).
Though many commentators and dictionaries apply this title both to God and to Christ, some secular sources argue otherwise.[4] Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) claims: "It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here... There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such." However, most Christian denominations teach that it does apply to Jesus and God as they are one; Revelation Chapter 22 has Jesus himself saying the words: "I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last".

Manu Iti: So it is tied into Christian theology.

William: Yes. So from this C Q are saying they are the beginning and the end…the first and the last.

Manu Iti: Continue.

William: “Lyricus is able to track and monitor SECUs (Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe) no matter what physical structures they inhabit.”

Manu Iti: So C Q may inhabit any form of physical structure and Lyricus is able to ‘track’ them and ‘keep an eye on’ them?

William: Apparently. ‘Monitor’

Manu Iti: So are Members of Lyricus which are ‘tracking and monitoring’ C Qs also C Qs?

William: As I understand it, yes. ‘In this we are the same’ as the understanding goes.

Manu Iti: So you are saying then that these quotes provided offer no support for the belief systems to do with ‘transforming’ the human body.

William: Correct.

Manu Iti: What then is being transmitted in these particular quotes?

William: To be precise – I understand that what is being spoken of here is simply that we are NOT the human body. We are that which resides within the human body, and that what we are is Sovereign Entities of the Central Race within the body we call ‘human’
That we are ‘the beginning and the end’ and that we are not time bound or restrained by the adornments of bodies. We are of ourselves primal and honed to perfection by our creator.

Manu Iti: So then, Anu is not the creator of C Q

William: Correct. According to the information regarding HMS, Anu created the physical universe, and specifically Earth and the human form which was designed to give the illusion of being separate and to conceal our true identity from our conscious awareness while in these forms and that even when we die, and are not within that form we are still within the prison suppression matrix that the experience within this form created as part of the illusion.

Manu Iti: And in this, it is not only the human form which is the reason for the suppression of the C Q.

William: Yes – we have spoken already in some detail about that.

Manu Iti: Yes – we have. And Lyricus are tracking and monitoring these C Q even within the deception instrument of this form?

William: Yes. I would imagine that this is true even when the CQ leaves that form through the death of that form and moves into the reincarnation (back into TROB (earth) or into the Astral Realms.

Manu Iti: But these particular quotations given do not support the notion about transforming this ‘Anu created body’.

William: Correct.

Both the animating force and the bodies within which this force expresses are not of this earth. What you call humans, we call Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe (SECU -- pronounced SeeQue). SECUs are the alpha and omega. They are not time-bound nor restrained by the adornments of bodies. They are the primal form finished and honed to the perfection of their creator, and in this, we are all the same.
Lyricus is able to track and monitor SECUs (Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe) no matter what physical structures they inhabit.
James Q&As S2 A12

Manu Iti: So then, what can you tell me through your own experiences, about these quotes?

William: Mainly what I get from these – is the part which says Lyricus is able to track and monitor me, no matter what physical structures I inhabit.

Manu Iti: Expand on this.

William: Well looking back on my life’s experience to date…I can clearly see the significance and undeniable reality that this is truth.

There are intersections where my path – or the unfolding course of my life and the decisions I made converged with another reality, and these experiences allowed me something of a peek into that other reality.

Manu Iti: This is subjective reality you are speaking of?

William: Largely – although there were and are moments when others experiencing their life paths would converge with mine and together we would acknowledge the other aspect…the invisible reality which is related closely to this one.

Manu Iti: And Lyricus is this conjoining invisible reality?

William: Essentially yes. I did not think of them as being an ‘order’ which ‘teaches’ and was called ‘Lyricus’.

Manu Iti: What did you thing of them as?

William: Well – essentially ‘God’ overseeing my life’s experience.
Also, the more well known aspects of that story – coming from my own upbringing and belief systems – which through continued interaction I began to discern as not quiet right.

Manu Iti: Yet, from the description provided, you can recognise the Sovereign Entities of the Central Universe – the SECU - in these ‘aspects’ of ‘God’?

William: Certainly. Definitively within the ‘You are always watched over’ phrase…you get to see fairly quickly that this is indeed, truth.

Manu Iti: How so?

William: In the way things unfold.

Manu Iti: Okay we will revisit our discussion on ‘The Machine’ at this point in our discussion.

William: In relation to Anu?

Manu Iti: Correct.

William: Okay.

Manu Iti: Firstly we we again look at this picture.


Manu Iti: Now you have already said that within this image you see two forms, correct?

William: Yes. Although originally I saw one and made the assumption that the other was and artistic account of what was in the mind of that form.

Manu Iti: So we will examine this ‘artistic account’ of what you saw, before looking at the way you see the image now.
Who is this an image of?

William: Mahu Nahi.

Manu Iti: What is the form then – that you first saw as being ‘in the mind of’ Mahu Nahi?

William: I don’t know. I think I saw it as something like Mahu Nahi’s Entity or something which Mahu was focused upon.

Manu Iti: Mahu Nahi.

William: Yes – Mahu…Nahi.
Looking at the picture again now, I think I may have ascociated the words accompanying the image “This is Mahu Nahi” as being Mahu Nahi…a represented image of Mahu Nahi with (his?) hands on the opaque glass, and super imposed upon that image, was a full body image…both are Mahu Nahi…yes that was my initial impression I think.

Manu Iti: So the words describing the image say that The Corteum are very human-like.

William: In appearance, yes.

Manu Iti: Yes – in brackets, as if to leave no doubt in the individuals understanding that the Corteum are only human like in appearance.

William: Yes…leaving no doubt.

Manu Iti: Underneath that sentence, another say’s “this is Mahu Nahi”.

William: Yes – and there are two images. Both could be representative of Mahu Nahi.
One is a foggy image with its hands pressed to the glass, indeed showing 5 fingers – which – in appearance – is quiet human-like.

Manu Iti: Let’s take a closer look then shall we?

William: Sure.


Manu Iti: Okay – while we’re at it, see if you can’t put the face into the face.

William: I will give it a go.


Manu Iti: That is adequate. What can you see?

William: That the image of the face close to the glass can fit into the image of the form with the yellow and red circle on its chest area.

Manu Iti: While this may not prove conclusively that this then is an image of the same individual called Mahu Nahi, from two different and related perspectives, it does strongly suggest following that line of enquiry, would you agree?

William: I agree. We can always look at the other possibility later.

Manu Iti: Yes. So now look at this.


William: That looks to be the same or similar to the thing on Mahu Nahi’s chest.

Manu Iti: Indeed. Coupled with the linking word “Corteum” the two images are related.

Expression: Death is an illusionary World created by Anu to suppress the Sovereign Integral ... nothing more and nothing less

it no longer serves any purpose because the Age of Suppression is OVER ...

you can go to Death if you want to, but you don't need to - especially if you have experienced it, the after-life and re-incarnation before ... there is nothing to be gained in Death, it just delays the individual's progress ... it is neither a reward nor a punishment ... it is a Learned Behavior, of a person in a fragmented state of consciousness

you can believe that (and manifest it in your life) or NOT ... your choice ... personally I am not going to Death any more ... as my mind is relieved more each day from the duties of "thinking for the Entity" by the GM (higher mind) it is able to serve the purpose of its creation, which is to maintain the HI ... according to science the HI should self repair and last hundreds of years ... now that is something I can believe in ... and believe that I am getting younger every day ...

Image The above expression seems to desire to remain within Anu’s programme.

Image It is more the desire to remain on earth and continue to influence through the reformed human instrument and retain the personality of the individual desiring this form of longevity , much like Simon of the DP Story who was a little over 300 years old.

Image So there is more to this expression…

Expression: I haven't had the opportunity NOT to experience Death, William ... but when you come back after your trip there , fifty years or so from now, I'll still be here

and then you will realize I did KNOW what I was talking about ... that is if you are are here then, to transform and can access your memories of me ... trying to assist you

Image The expression is misguiding.

Image So yes – we spoke of this cycle of death reincarnation astral and Sovereing Integral and I drew a ‘map’


Image Correct

Image An aspect of GSSC was the program we call the fear of death, the
fear of separation, the fear of non-existence.
It was this fear, so powerfully felt by humans, that gave rise to the construct of
a separate God, from which a separate Spirit filled the universe, and from which
we were all created in separation. Whether one arrives to God through religion
or spirituality, does not matter, it is the same effect of appeasing the fear of
death within the individual just as the program specified. In effect, Anu, the
King of Anunnaki, positioned himself to be God of the human world.

Image This seems to suggest that because the death of the physical body which Anu created is inevitable, and thus the consciousness within which is animating the body is unaware it is CQ it sees death as a mystery it knows nothing about.
Over the centuries of human rule mythology has been created to minimise the fear and even to transform it into something which is more usable – from the perspective of the human controllers.

Image Yes. Anu positioned himself to be God of the human world. However his position was not one which could dictate the choices of his agents.

Image In what way?

Image Anu cannot control the actions or the choices of his most powerful or entrusted humans, any more than the Oracle of Dohrman can.

Image But the fear of wronging Anu would play a part in obedience yes? Surely the thought of punishment or damnation would keep the powerful priests and the followers in line?

Image You know this is not the case. Even this can be read in the DP book – Anu is not ever present no matter that the all seeing eye is designed to give that impression.
This is not to say that Anu does not have access to being able to see what goes on, but he does not have the power to do much in the way of making an individual tow the line – again – as can be read in the story – humans will find ways to manipulate even an Oracle which speaks the truth and foretells the future…humans used this to create and maintain power over that which they wanted to possess…the hearts of humankind – indirectly by possessing their minds and narrowing their thoughts.

Image The pathway to God, independent of the religion or spiritual path one walked,
had the same program underlying it: You are a human with a soul, this soul
must be redeemed or activated, upon which you will be saved. In this process of
being saved, you are relinquished of self-responsibility to the world condition.
You are rewarded with a life eternal in the kingdom of God (by whatever name
you call God) where you can live in bliss and/or serve as a teacher of the light.

Image So what does this say – that even if an individual has no interest in religion of spirituality, they are still manipulated by the same programme?

Image It appears so, yes. It mentions the light side of the programme and you gravitate toward whatever you ‘see’ god as being.

Image But if someone does not see god as anything, then what happens to them upon death?

Image Many things are possible – essentially the programme works on belief systems and when confronted with the ‘truth’ – a situation upon dying where the individual had no beliefs about after death – to be confronted with something which is real – that real thing being the continuation of existence for the individual – the individual can and does react in a number of ways, but essentially because of the aggregate energetics of human belief systems which have created the astral realm, coupled with Anu’s programmes which are still operational in the sheath of the discarnate, the individual can be presented with whatever option their minds create, and in many cases this equates to ‘heaven’ or ‘hell’ – neither of which are directly the creation of Anu’s programmes – but are further manipulation by those who placed the beliefs into the human domain in order to control them while they were on earth.

Image The savior/master construct is an integral part of the GSSC, and encourages
human beings to yearn for a master to teach them how to ascend, how to be
saved, how to achieve nirvana, how to live a moral life, and how to ensure
eternal happiness. There are masters of great wisdom and light who remain
within the domain of the HMS without knowing their involvement. The subtlety
is so powerful that even when you feel you have achieved self-realization you remain trapped in the HMS. It is that vast,
especially when compared to the material world.

Image So essentially one would need to reprogram the human instrument in order to nullify the effect of these programmes.

Image Essentially, yes. However, how is one able to do so within the suppression matrix?

Image We have the heart and the higher mind.
We thus delete the belief in such programmes.

Image This need be completely deleted so that there is no residue of belief or faith which would summon or otherwise activate the programmes of after death.

Image So can a human body remain inert – or at least slow the aging process?

Image Mythologically speaking, yes. For example, the stories of Jesus, as well as the saints who are purported to still be living in this domain for 2000 years now.

Image If this is truth, then they would literally now rule the world.

Image Essentially yes…in regard to the power procured through there uninterrupted lifetime of 2000 years.

Image Yes – one would not have to stretch the imagination too much in order to see how individuals who have lived for that long might have positioned themselves firmly at the top of the heap of humanity.

Image Indeed. They might also have learned some other tricks – like levitation, instant manifestation, invisibility, moving through solid objects, bi location and remote viewing – to name a few.

Image Sounds like ‘the WingMakers’

Image Oh yes – that reminds me. They might also have learned how to travel through time and interact…interactive time travel.

The Atlanteans, through the trickery of Anu, were seduced into inhabiting the
human instrument, and the Sovereigns became humans. However, not every
Atlantean was captured and subjected to the process of human enslavement,
there were some, who predicted the outcome of the human project that Anu
was executing and they fled within a dimensional “pocket” upon Earth, deep
within what is now called the Atlantic ocean. It was these Atlanteans that became known in mythological terms as the Elohim

Image So we can take a peek at the hierarchal structure of “WingMakers” – from this simple map we can address the structure, its preventatives, and how the individual can bypass the more preventative aspects of these structures…

Image Sure – so in this diagram it is shown that James is the first preventative – he interprets Lyricus information from their secret domain into the public one.


Image Due to Lyricus decision to have a mouthpiece…somewhat anonymous, although certainly not completely.
One is able to read the information and make what they will of this information. In regard to actually hearing James voice, this is available in three separate interview sessions with Mark, which were then made public shortly after.

Image We work with what we have to work with, correct?

Image Yes.

Image So this hierarchy is something of a natural occurrence.
Where are it weak points?

Image I think - based on the diagram – the further out from the centre, the weaker the signal, as it were?

Image Correct. Each layer away from the centre – in this case Lyricus Information – the greater the possibility of distortion.
What is the solution or antidote for this?

Image To connect.

Image With Lyricus Information?

Image No. With that which Lyricus Information advises connection with – Higher Self – Quantum Presence.

Image Therefore, the Information which comes from Lyricus through James counsels this individual connection to Quantum Presence?

Image Yes…through James. But James does not say to connect to him, as it were, but to connect with the QP.

Image What about Mahu Nahi. Did not James provide this possibility regarding connecting with Mahu Nahi?

Image Yes he did. However as you have pointed out – the QP is made up of a collective of individuals who have merged their resources into one agenda…so it is not necessarily a problem to connect with Mahu Nahi or any other member of the Corteum.

Image However?

Image However, the ‘advice’ is to personally invite the connection with the QP…There is no real ‘however’ because we understand the QP is One Being ‘made up’ of many individuals.
Therefore, call one, call all. Speak with one, speak with all.

Image Therefore this is the very thing which bypasses the controlling aspects of the hierarchy

Image Yes. It is the one thing that is able to do this.

Image So – the controlling aspects of the hierarchy in regard to the physical reality of the evolution of Lyricus Information making its way into the public sector…Mark, Earnest, The Berges, the forum members who insist what is acceptable and what is not…the watering down process…worth examination and finding the path around the obstacles which naturally come through the hierarchy process – and the path is for the individual to connect with QP and thus the outward expression of this connection will always be the same thing – working together as a single entity – unified rather than fragmented.

Image Yes.

Image So where does the fragmenting start?

Image To be honest it starts at James.

Image Not the information itself?

Image Well where does the information come from – Lyricus…and the information is not new – it has been around for centuries – Lyricus has always been behind the dissemination of this information and the information has always ended up under the control of the externals – the hierarchy which is created and the further from the centre of the source, the more watered down and distorted the information is likely to become.

All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:11 pm, edited 15 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:22 am 
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Image Who should I Trust?


What should I Trust?

Image Everything.

I should Trust nobody, but I should Trust everything? How does that work?

Image It works.
When I say Everything, I mean Everything, altogether.

But how is one to know or understand Everything?

Image All That Is.
Indeed, how – within the human form of experience, can one know Everything. It is not possible.

So…therefore…within the human experience, because it is limited and suppressed, it is only a very small part of Everything…

…Infinitesimal, yes…

I cannot trust anything, nor anyone?


Because…it is not Everything.

Why do you need to trust anything?

I don’t know. I am not so sure I do need to.

Trust Yourself then.

You said ‘Trust Everything’ then you said ‘Trust Yourself’.


The Atlanteans, through the trickery of Anu, were seduced into inhabiting the
human instrument, and the Sovereigns became humans. However, not every
Atlantean was captured and subjected to the process of human enslavement,
there were some, who predicted the outcome of the human project that Anu
was executing and they fled within a dimensional “pocket” upon Earth, deep
within what is now called the Atlantic ocean.
It was these Atlanteans that became known in mythological terms as the Elohim or Shining Ones, and these are the same as we know today as the WingMakers.

That first part reminds me of the Ancient Arrow materials…Dr. Neruda speaking to Sarah about Lucifer and his project to create a form which could house the ‘Angelic’…host the Angelic…

Image Indeed – shall we look into that?


Are you saying what I think you're saying? That anonymous prophets from God knows where and when, have seen a vision of our future take-over by a race of robots? I mean you do realize how -- how unbelievable that sounds?

Yes -- I know it sounds unbelievable -- but there are diluted versions of this very same prophecy in our religious texts, it's just that the alien race is portrayed as the antichrist; as if the alien race was personified in the form of Lucifer. This form of the prophecy was acceptable to the gatekeepers of these texts, and so they allowed a form of the prophecy to be distributed, but the notion of an alien race was eliminated.

Yes…but more to do with Lucifer’s experiment in trying to create this particular body…

The formless consciousness doesn't select soul carriers that don't utilize DNA as its formative structure. It knows that these structures are not able to connect to the unification force, and therefore, cannot be trusted

And they can't be trusted because?

Because the unification force is what brings coherence to incoherence, and purpose to chaos. Without it, physical structures tend to ebb and flow in stasis, which is to say, they don't transform.

How did this happen?


That the Animus became an independent race unconnected to God?"

You've heard the story of the fallen angels?"

You're talking about the Lucifer rebellion?"

Yes. This story is misrepresented in Biblical texts, owing to the fact that the authors of these texts didn't have a sufficient understanding in which to define cosmology or physics.
"The Central Race designed the higher life forms, and this includes a wide range of beings that operate within the quantum world and the reality membranes therein. Among these beings are what we commonly refer to as the angels, who are intermediaries between the soul carriers of humanoids, and the Central Race.

"There were some within the angelic realm that believed the Central Race was too controlling of the soul carrier structure. They felt that a structure should be created that would enable angels to incarnate within the reality membrane of earth and other life-bearing planets. They insisted that this would improve these planets and the physical structure of the universe at large. However, the Central Race refused this proposal and a renegade group left to design a soul carrier, independent of the Central Race."

Hold on a moment. You're saying that Lucifer led this rebellion to create a soul carrier that could house the spirit of an angel, and the Animus is the result?"

It's more complicated than that. Lucifer, or what we have come to call Lucifer, was a very devoted servant of the Central Race. He was one of the forerunners of the angelic species; capable of powers that were diminished by the Central Race in subsequent prototypes

Are you saying that angels are created -- that they can't reproduce like humans?"

"Lucifer's personality included a strong sense of independence from his creators, and an even stronger sense that his creators were flawed because of their insistence that the humanoid soul carrier would exclusively house the formless consciousness, and not the angelic form. To Lucifer, this seemed unthinkable because the angelic form was superior in its capabilities and could be of great assistance to the physical life forms on earth and other life-bearing planets.

"From Lucifer's perspective, humans and the higher order species would be unable to transform themselves because of the severe limits of their soul carriers, or physical forms. Lucifer felt certain that without the collaboration of the angels, humanoids throughout the universe would become increasingly separated from their purpose as spiritual beings, and throw the universe into disarray, which would eventually cause its destruction and life within it -- including, of course, angels."

Then you're suggesting that the Lucifer rebellion was simply a disagreement over this one issue?"

Lucifer wanted to incarnate into this reality membrane the same way humans do. He wanted to become a collaborator with humanity to assure its ascension. While the Central Race saw his intentions as noble, they feared that the angelic incarnations would become known as Gods to their human counterparts, and unintentionally mislead humans, rather than co-create the ladder to the God state.

"This matter underwent a tremendous debate, ultimately forming a division between the angelic realm and the Central Race. The loyalists to the Central Race argued that Lucifer and his sympathizers should be banished for their radical ideas that could potentially create a lasting division in their reality membrane, and cause them tremendous turmoil. Lucifer, in wide-ranging deliberations with the Central Race, negotiated a compromise that enabled him to take his group of sympathizers and prove the value of their plan on a single planet."

Are you saying that Lucifer was allowed to experiment on a planet?"


Okay, before we go any further, are you talking about this in the context of myth or are you essentially representing the Corteum view?"

There are three ancient manuscripts in the ACIO's possession that describe this story in an allegorical form, but the Corteum view -- as you put it -- is much more descriptive and definitive as a record of this cosmic event.

So, Lucifer conducted this -- experiment. Where and to what result?"

The planet is in a galaxy known as M51 to your scientists.

This is the same galaxy of the Animus?"


So you're really saying that Lucifer and his band of sympathizers created the Animus to be soul carriers for angels?"

It's more complicated than that."

I certainly hope so because this story is too strange for me to believe.

Be patient. We're moving into uncomfortable territory for most people. So take a deep breath and bear with me as I try to explain this.
Lucifer created a synthetic physical structure that could accommodate the quantum requirements of an angel. It was a very effective structure, but induced a strong survival complex within the species, which eventually overpowered the angelic tendency of altruism and cooperation.

Why? What happened?

When the formless consciousness enters a reality membrane through a structure like a soul carrier, it immediately feels disconnected from all other forces, but its own. It's literally thrown into separation. In humans, this is more or less controlled through the subtle realization that it remains connected through the unification force, and this is because its DNA is designed to emit this feeling of connection subconsciously.

That is interesting regarding DNA and the subconscious feeling of connection.

However, in the case of the soul carrier designed by Lucifer and his followers, this connection was severed both consciously and subconsciously because the structure was not based on DNA, which is strictly controlled by the Central Race. Consequently, it inclined this experimental species toward a very strong survival complex because it feared extinction so deeply, which is the result of feeling complete separation from the unification force. This survival complex created a species that over-compensated its fear of extinction by developing a very powerful group mind.

The group mind compensated for the loss of connection to the unification force, creating its physical and mental corollary. It was the equivalent of unifying the species as a whole in the physical reality membrane of their planetary system. Thus, the angels that entered this system lost their memory of their angelic natures and became more interested in operating as a single collective, than as individuals.

This is interesting. Obviously then the ‘angelic’ are not connected as a collective – which Sovereign Integral Network allows for…being individual as well as connected to the collective consciousness.

They became a concern for the Central Race, and Lucifer was asked to dismantle his experiment. However, Lucifer had become attached to the specie that he had helped to create. These angelic beings had developed over a number of generations a very sophisticated set of technologies, culture, and social order. It was like an extended family in many ways to Lucifer. So, he negotiated to modify his creation so they would no longer accommodate the angelic frequency or quantum structure, but that they could become self-animated.

This sounds like the Atlanteans…sophisticated technologies, culture and social order…does this dovetail with the information in the Camelot interview?

Image It is possible, yes.

How do you mean self-animated?

That they would become soulless androids

And so this happened and that's how we got the Animus?"


Of course, this story has changed since this information was released but as a parable it serves a purpose.

Image Indeed.

These beings have been watching the human family since its initial footsteps on
a densifying planet called Earth, millions of years ago. They have been the
benevolent resource to humanity because they are human in every sense except
they do not have the HMS programs and systems or the human instrument that
distract and divert the Sovereigns within the human instrument from realizing
they are present.
And how are the Sovereigns present? In every breath that brings life to the
human instrument. It is the breath in which the Sovereign’s presence dwells.
There is a saying within Lyricus that If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your
mind. It’s well understood that this is an abstract concept to the Human Mind
System, but the Sovereigns live in the intersection of life and Nature, which is
the breath.


Image Invisible…as the air you breath.

So ‘The WingMakers’ being Atlanteans – the ones who did not become seduced into human skin – they are invisible, multidimentional, benevolent and have not worn the body which is encoded with Anu’s programmes…

Image As close to you as the air you breath, yes.

The WingMakers are not the guides, angels, ascended masters, or gods that exist within the dimensions of the Human Mind System. They live within the
interdimensional fields of the higher mind, and like wise elders to the human family they provide the paradigms of the Sovereign Integral and Grand Portal.
They focus exclusively on these two paradigms because from these come the
First Point that enables the individual to dissolve the programs that conceal the
one, the equal, and the truthful from itself.

So guides, angels master and gods are not real?

Image Not in the way they are understood by human mythology, no.

Image The WingMakers coined the term Sovereign Integral to encode the meaning that
what exists within the pathways of one’s breath is more than a physical body
composed of a circuitry of feelings and thoughts. The greatest of the spiritual
explorers realized this and have understood that the human soul would be redefined in every era, and while it would appear to change, it always remains
the constant awareness of both the infinite and the finite, and the real and the

How is one able to tell the difference between what is real and what is not?

Image By becoming ‘the soul’ – identifying not with the body, but that which resides within and animates the body.

The soul is itself being redefined…

Image Correct and this will continue. It is part of the integration.

How would you define the soul?

Image In the same way as ‘the WingMakers’ are defined here.

All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:40 am, edited 3 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:23 am 
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“Come with us.”

Again the chamber shifts and I find myself back within the form of the one sitting on the solid gold jewel encrusted throne.
Before I have the chance to focus further, I feel myself being lifted out of the form and hovering above it, and the vast mass of creatures surrounding the form on the throne and focusing their whole beautiful beings upon that form.

“Which way do you want to go?”

I am stunned. I can barely comprehend the scale of what it is I am witnessing. It seems to go on forever in every direction. The throne is situated as if in the centre of a sphere. Even ‘up’ there are creatures fixing their attention to the form on the throne. Everywhere is the ambient expression of unlimited love.

“I want to go out – out beyond this.”

Suddenly I was moving “out” and before me and beneath me and all around me there was such colour and beauty and silence and a palatable expression of a profoundly awesome fixation. I found myself wanting to focus on the object of adoration – to the form on the throne.

I cannot say how much time went by before I began to sense the change. I knew that I had be moving away from the source of adoration, and days or years or lifetimes may have gone by, for all that I could tell, but eventually there was a different feel about things.

The beauty was still there. The creatures where still facing toward the centre of the adulation - now a bright star in the centre of a vast sphere.
I then began to notice that the attention of the creatures this far out from the form on the throne were focusing their attention away from the object of adulation. Something was happening to get their attention?

The mood of the atmosphere became a mixture of panic, indignation, concern, and defensive. Something was obviously causing this, and soon I was about to see exactly what that something was.

“Do you understand what it is you are seeing?”

“I am not sure. Something is causing great consternation on the outer edges of this sphere.”

“Shall we see then what this something is?”

As I continued to fly through this unfolding circumstance, I could see all manner of warfare in full battle.
There seemed to be Angels and Demons and confusion and hatred and the battle ground was vast all around me.

“What is this place – What is happening here?”

“This is a place where two opposing forces meet. It acts as a wall between two Realms. This battle has been going on here for a very, very long age.”

“There seems to be great death and destruction happening here, and yet as the dying fall, more take their place. They seem to have limitless creatures in which to replenish the dead and yet…and yet it also seems that the dead rise to fight again!”

“You see what is. This is what a barrier does.”

“A barrier to what? Where do the Demons come from? What are they wanting? Are they wanting to destroy the whole sphere and the form on the golden throne?

“They are protecting themselves.”

“From what? From the Angels?

“Look closely – what do you see among the Angels and the Demons?”

I looked closer. I could see that humans and elves and dwarves and every manner of creature imaginable were fighting for both the Angel and the Demon Barriers.

“It seems that there are creatures of the same race, same form, who are fighting for one side or the other.”

“You see what is.”

“ Why is this happening?”

“We will show you”

Again I started to move in the direction I had been going, while all around me the battle raged unending.

After some time the battle began to subside, and I noticed that the creatures around me were not fighting, but had their attention focused on a bright star in the distance, a bright star situated exactly in the centre of a vast sphere.

I began to get the uncanny feeling that I had been here before. Days’ years or lifetimes later, I began to see the outline of the same golden jewel encrusted throne with the same form seated on it.

There was that same exceedingly beautiful expression of never-ending love and adoration coming from the uncountable number of creatures who each were focusing on the form on the golden throne.

Finally, I was above the form, and then I moved within the form, and looked out over the whole silent scene.

I shut my eyes.

I heard the collective sigh…and then I left the form and found myself immediately back in my chamber.

“Tell us. What are your realisations from what you just experienced?

I remained silent.

“You have no thoughts on this?”

“I have some ideas, but my thoughts are incomplete.”

“What are your ideas?”

“I have an idea that I need to view the whole thing from outside of itself. I have been within it dynamics, and have observed what is occurring. I need to view the whole system from a position outside its parameters.

“Very well.”

Again I went through the blankness and found myself once more looking at Planet Earth from a position where I could view the whole globe.
I was expecting to move towards the planet, however, I remained stationary.

“What is happening?”

“You are where you requested to be.”

“So – this is the source of and reason for the…what is it called…?

“ The Four Sections of Human Society Collectively Controlling the Human Mind System

All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:24 am 
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Mahu Iti and William wrote:
Manu Iti: Carollynn needs to focus on contacting and connecting with her higher self.
So does she provide any evidence to support her assertions?

William: Nope.
Manu Iti: Is she referring to James’ answer regarding Zeta Reticuli?
William: I don’t know, but we are.
Manu Iti: *Sigh* have we not already gone over that?
William: Yes.
Manu Iti: Do you think to repeat ourselves is going to help in any way?
William: Perhaps there are still those who trust Carollynn to speak truthfully.
Manu Iti: Yes – but if they are going to follow after others, that is their undoing as far this distracts from contact and communing with higher self.
William: True.
Manu Iti: So does she provide any evidence to support her assertions?

Tolsap: Watcher the fact that “she” cannot provide any “evidence” - is the “evidence”.

Manu Iti: Tolsap, the ‘evidence’ I was asking about was in regard to the personal accusations delivered through the device of Carollynn.
Such as is the case, no evidence to support the accusations is not ‘the evidence’.

No-one can prove it to another, they can only experience it! There is no exact formula for leading a person out of the HMS; there are techniques offered by the Materials and when they are applied, the Quantum Presence flow is less restricted and can then provide the individual with further techniques on how to co-create together the rest of the map and how to navigate through this moment by moment, day by day, experience by experience, so to speak. You can lead people inside, upside, downside, around, sideways, any way you want to within the HMS and people can allow themselves to be lead inside, upside, downside, around, sideways, anyway they want to be led around with the HMS. But to go beyond can only be experienced individually and it cannot be defined as an absolute - absolutes exist only in the HMS.

William: Yes – this is very much in line with what Manu and I have been sharing. There is no ABSOLUTE way of integrating with the Quantum Presence…

Manu Iti: Except to do so absolutely.

William: Of course. But in the context of Tolsap’s expression, there is no particular formula for this to become.

Manu Iti: the ‘formula’ is none the less an encoded event string. The manner in which the individual approaches and conceptualises the process is open but the integration is an absolute in regard to the encoding. When the aspects become one, this is indeed an absolute.

William: In what way is it absolute?

Manu Iti: The directive is from Quantum Presence Intelligence. Have you ever heard the expression “Point of no return”?

William: Yes.

Manu Iti: Indeed. This is an absolute.

William: So this process will never happen again. The need to separate in order to discover will never happen again?

Manu Iti: As certainly as the Human Mind System has served its purpose, yes. In regard to Discovery, the journey will continue without the separation illusion. So there are indeed absolutes in relation to Source Reality.
Bear in mind my dominant reality is that we are not separate at all – it has only been the walls created through the suppression matrix which has given you this illusion of being an individual, living a life within the framework of the human instrument as your dominant identity.

William: Okay.

It is important to journey hand-in-hand with your friends, lover, neighbor, prophets, galactic friends, peers, whomever, because we gather knowledge and experience along the way, but when it comes to walking out of the HMS prison it can only be done by oursleves, when we are communicating with ourselves from within our Quantum Presence. This is why the advice that is shared is to practice, practice, practice these techniques whilst continuing with one’s explorative studies of the materials, for it is within this practice and release of external influence that the boundaries are broken down and the wisdom of discernment is able to be recognized, known, and applied as to what is, and what isn’t.

Manu Iti: Hello ‘Carollynn’

William: yes – listen if you will Tolsap.
You barely finished mentioning in a separate breath that there are no “formula’s” and now there is ‘practice, practice, practice’ the ‘advice shared’.
To do with, as you say – the ‘release of external influences’ in order that the ‘boundaries are broken down’.
Now it is certain that even within these ‘practices’ the individual will of course determine their own rhythm etc…
So again ‘there are no absolutes’ and certainly the experience is more than the ‘talking about it’ but the ‘talking about it’ is part of the practice – certainly for some.

Manu Iti: To ‘cut to the chase here Tolsap, are you possibly suggesting that in regards to the Forum there is an absolute?
And that this ‘absolute’ has to do with ‘the intended purpose of the forum’?
Can you see where this is leading? If as you suggest, ‘absolutes’ only exist within the framework of HMS, then such an absolute would be HMS based, and therefore not ‘seemly’ in relation to ‘how to’ connect with Quantum Presence and experience this liberating reality.
With respect- Mahu Nahi /James has provided a technique which can greatly assist an individual with this process…
…would those who claim, as they do – that they have proven this technique to be ‘the way’ then heap disparaging expressions on those they believe are ‘deceived’ or otherwise ‘not doing it in “The Way” of the ‘proven’ in any way truthfully be expressing Sovereign Integral?
Do you see then that such disparage is a method of expression from the old paradigm and has no relevance to the shifting tides of change?

William: Put another way Tolsap, would a seeker want to be following ‘The Proven Way’ when those who say they do, crap upon others with their expression, IF they truly were Sovereign Integral in nature?
I say ‘No Way!”
So the evidence suggests that the way is not proven OR that they are bullcrapping.

And yes, it does get frustrating at times because one cannot prove it to another; that is why you will find the strong so vehemently holding their ground even when they cannot provide a “gift of manifestation” to coerce another along. This is where the warrior/strength status comes in, for nothing will “permanently” shake or unbalance their strength of “the knowing within the heart and the Quantum Presence” that cannot be revealed to others. In the days of emerging Sovereigns being the minority, it is only in maintaining and building one’s confidence in the face of adversity that the frequency can be maintained. When a storm approaches, do you send your weakest or your stongest to support the foundations of the home in which you live?

Individually: One by One! Not two by two, three by three, four thousand by four thousand: One by One!

Manu Iti: Unfortunately Tolsap, you have misunderstood our transmission regarding the ‘evidence’ and so the evidence that was enquired about had to do with the accusations from Carollynn regarding the nature of Who I Am in relation to William.
It certainly isn’t about providing evidence to support assertions that one is Sovereign Integral of expression.
The evidence is simply within the expression.
This evidence can assist the seeker – the awakening to also move towards connecting with their Quantum Presence.
There is no assistance in either encouraging individuals to doubt the Quantum Presence by casting shadows of darkness upon it, or, failing that, provide assertions deplete of any evidence which can instil in another – in other seekers – that the individual (in this case Myself and my William self) is a dark entity with dark agendas.
That kind of ‘practice’ is much the much ‘Glossy magazine” gossipy innuendo intended for the sleepers distracted entertainment.
Such as, it has no place in the genuine expression of Sovereign Integral.

Watcher wrote:
So - the irony is that I did not attract any such dark entity (for that is what tries to convince an individual of their evil) . . .

Watcher I believe the days of dark entities convincing individuals of their evil are minimal; it appears they have changed tact to convincing individuals of their supreme goodness, to keep individuals trailing in their footsteps.

Manu Iti: Tolsap, your beliefs are without merit in regards to myself.
It may be seen that ‘the future self’ is ahead of ‘the past self’ but do not forget that we are also ‘the ancient self’ to which the ‘present self’ also kind of ‘trails in the footsteps of’.
Your expression above really only alludes to ‘trickery’ and thus continues to cast shadows.
One can indeed cast shadows either ‘way’ but the truth is not – and will never be - found in the glossy assertions of human accusation.
There is simply no way for an individual to connect with their Quantum Presence with those kind of belief systems in place.

William: Exactly Manu.
The point being, when an individual shares something of their Journey within a WingMakers forum, that person has every right to EXPECT that the sharing will not be dumped upon with shadows of expressions of evil entities etc.

Tolsap, I am not ‘enticed’ to ‘follow’ Manu. I am aware that we are One…certainly in different dimensions, but none the less, we are the same being. This is simply an outward expression of an inner reality of a real and purposeful recollection and connection.
I do not expect Manu to tell me how ‘great’ I am. That is not the purpose or any consideration to our communion.
However, I do not presume that Manu is of dark agenda, as your sentence above suggests (in its own way yes) and I have already shared a story when I did presume this of Manu.
It was then claimed by Carollynn and supported by Deborah that this ‘Anunnaki’ had used a ‘machine’ to trick me into believing it was expressing Unconditional Love

Manu Iti: Indeed. The expression came from the Dohrman Prophesy where a character is persuaded by the Anunnaki prince to ‘step into the light’ however, this light produced a feeling of ‘bliss’ which is not Unconditional Love.
No one can interpret another’s experience for them, and to cast shadows of doubt and ill intent upon the stories shared is not supportive of anything wholesome – it is rather, an age old method of control…or in this case – attempt to control.

William: Correct. I do not share because I want advice or direction.
So Carollyn is simply taking a shared event and twisting it to suit the way she chooses to see the relationship of Manu Iti and William…you understand this and will either support that practice or withdraw from supporting that practice.
Either way – that practice is ‘old hat’ and unsavoury at that.

Watcher wrote:
Living entities using the device of the internet to remain invisible and persist in either making others feel self doubting or when that doesn't work - invent lies about them in order that others might believe those lies and look at them doubtfully.

You are expressing a lot in this statement friend, keep going with it. All entities are alive and well, perhaps those that appear “not living” are actually more alive than those we see as doing the living!

Manu Iti: This is true Tolsap. All entities are living. William also understands this and has shared how he came to this understanding.
However, the point being made was the irony from our perspective as to the expression of invisible entities ( in the sense that they remain largely anonymous and communicate mostly through symbols strung together to form words.

William: Yes Tolsap – as I explained already in my sharing. If you were to read what I am sharing you will have a better understanding than simply assuming Carollynn or Deborah is being truthful regarding me.

Watcher wrote:
What I am listening for in you, is the Sovereign Integral expression which tells me you are awakening and aligning with Quantum Presence - instead of upholding the echos of past irrelevant belief systems which suppress that living and vibrant connection.

Until we are very, very confident with our abilities to sustain our Quantum Presence and not “tourniquet the flow” it is usually better to keep listening for the Sovereign Integral expression within ourselves that tells us we are awakening and aligning with Quantum Presence and not something from our previous belief systems that appears live and vibrant.
I’m afraid the only way that I know how to do this, as guided by these Materials, is to use the delete/mute button on all previous belief systems to activate the QP, get to know it, practice with it, learn the ups and downs of sustenance of this frequency, and when levels of confidence are reached, then take a peek at previous belief systems. If the previous belief systems are seen and felt differently and a greater sense of sovereignty is identified from this, then this is a good sign as to transforming those belief systems. However, when we feel ourselves being drawn back into the previous belief systems, get out, push the delete/mute button and keep working on strengthening the frequency of QP, without external influence.

Manu Iti: Indeed. Herein is the confusion for you in regard to what William is sharing (his Quantum Presence).
I am that and William is confident enough indeed to ‘speak on behalf of’ without bending my words for some ulterior motive unaligned with Sovereign Expression.
He simply expresses through the heart, feeling and the higher mind. That is our connection.
It is understood that not all are so confident, but it is quiet obvious that William is not trying to entice anyone to ‘follow his way’.
Simply put, it is the expression, and the expression is that which encourages everyone to connect with their presence – whatever the ‘formula’ for that might be, and to understand within these expressions that there is NO RISK –in other words…

William: …There is no need for the individual to doubt themselves or their higher self…or for that matter anyone’s Quantum Presence because the expression is always centred on encouragement to connect and commune without the shadow of doubt. The shadow of doubt acts as a barrier to this connection.
This shadow is not so easy to dissipate – due largely to the myths of human culture, as is explained in the philosophies as ‘consigning all sorts of shadow onto the entity that we are’ and it is certainly not an expression of encouragement to cast those shadows of doubt onto others about others, do you agree?
Especially not in a forum called ‘Wingmakers’
For that is an ‘external influence’ which is coming from something other than Sovereign Integral Expression…therefore we can hear Sovereign Integral expression from the external…and integrate that with our own.

But how do we determine that an external influence, that is being experienced internally and therefore doesn’t fit the external framework, is actually an external influence? I would like to contribute my perspectives to this question that I have personally raised as it is something that I believe is very important and essential to discern; but not always that easy, unfortunately. As my posts tend to be a bit lengthy, and time consuming, I will post in relation to this a bit later.

Manu Iti: I hope that our expression has helped you to understand the ‘how to’ Tolsap.

William: We look forward to your answer regarding this question.
PS. In the traditional sense, “Channelling” is when a person speaks for another where they are in relation to one another separate entities. .


Tolsap: Before I go further with my personal perspectives, of which I will not be able to contribute for perhaps a week, I would appreciate your response in the meantime Watcher and Manu Iti toward providing clarity to a curiosity of mine.

Manu Iti: Certainly Tolsap. Please begin with invoking your Quantum Presence to being included in this communication

Tolsap: And if you are merely attempting to demonstrate a dominant reality aspect of yourself, (synonymous with James aka Mahu Nahi in his dominant reality), it appears odd that you would display a channeled version of this communication when James has nowhere delivered or implied in his materials that he is “channeling”. James has indicated that he is a translator and I find it fairly evident that he has an exceptional ability to be able to coherently deliver from his Heart’s Intelligence to his Mind.

Manu Iti: This is a beautiful question and one which needs to be addressed through the medium provided, namely, the internet and accompanying devices which make such communication possible.

William: Yes – thank you Tolsap.

Manu Iti: First let me say that due to William thinking he had not posted what you have since replied to because he later couldn’t find it…

William: …because it wasn’t posted in the thread I thought I had, so I presumed that I had only reviewed my post and – as I sometimes do – I forget to actually post it.

Manu Iti: Correct.

William: So I decided that it probable meant that I needed to make adjustments and additions and post it later…which I did.

Manu Iti: Yes – and those additions make some clarity in regard to this question concerning ‘what is channelling?’

William: Which from my perspective is another important indication that the higher mind is more clearly connected individual to individual and as we learn to tap into this reality, we can by-pass some of the more common misunderstandings which occur through traditional communication techniques between individuals through the device or system of 3D.

Manu Iti: For example – through the device of txt’n.

William: Yes, this system took some time to adapt to because what is absent in txt is the ‘tone’ although a tone can indeed be conveyed through txt, a simple statement can be ‘picked up’ by the recipient in a number of ways – none of which align with the tone in which the deliverer intended.

Manu Iti: This is known as ‘expression’ with Lyricus.

William: In Lyricus Lingo.

Manu Iti: Now in terms of txt’n on the ‘net, these ‘tones’ are far easier to deliver.

William: Yes…even the ‘undertones’.

Manu Iti: Precisely. Yet it is still inadequate as a communications device in comparison with The Higher Mind.
This is why Lyricus have made use of ‘The Principle of Mythmaking’


William: They ‘work with what they have to work with, as far as individual and collected beliefs systems, the energies created through the belief systems and where these collect into pockets of gathering, and effect the world of 3D,4D and to a far lesser degree, 5D.

Manu Iti: Which is to say, 5D is not affected in the same way as 4D to 3D belief systems.

Tolsap: What is the wisdom behind the choice you have both made in communicating on the forum in the traditionally recognized format of “channelling” when the materials clearly indicate that channeling, although respected as a form of communication, is still contained within the HMS and is one of the distortions that needs to be identified and intelligently discerned?

William: The communication happens regardless of the format. There is no point in suppressing it in relation to the forum just because some might not appreciate it.

Manu Iti: remember, it is not the ‘messenger’ it is the message. In the spirit of your question, you have chosen to approach this without the volatile overtone of accusation, condemnation and separation.
It is always best to simply ask, yes?

William: What is the ‘distortion’ that it needs to be identified and intelligently discerned?
Is it to do with the tone of the expression? Is the expression distorted?
What is the ‘traditionally recognised format of channelling’?
And the most discerning question would be, are those understandings about the ‘traditionally recognised format of channelling’ derived from outside of the influence of HMS or inside?

Manu Iti: The answer can be found. The ‘inner voice’ can be channelled through an outward expression which can be conveyed through a number of medium options, and in the case of this, the option is through text and the internet, which itself is made up of a number of devices which are interconnected through this process but can be used apart from each other.
Together the parts make up a system, but the parts still – in the 3D understanding – are able to work independently of the whole.

William: Yes – if the internet or even the typewriter was not available, this communion with these particular aspects of The Self would still continue.

Manu Iti: Indeed, and from the 5D perspective, the communion which is happening as reflected in the internet has been happening – before the internet, before the written language and before the tribes of earth even began to discover one another.

William: Tradition is the outward manifestation of an inner belief system.
Ouija in its present manifestation has been viewed traditionally as a device to contact and communicate with ‘the spirit realm’…

Manu Iti: …and that realm is traditionally understood to be inclusive of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ entities, some non human, all discarnate.

William: Of all the ‘Occult’ and ‘Religious’ devices, this particular form of communication is relatively new in relation to the rest in terms of the other forms and interestingly enough, it is certainly part of the ‘tradition’ to consider this particular practice to being ‘the most evil’ – more ‘evil’ in fact than allowing a supposed entity to use you body to communicate a message.
It became more main-stream when it was introduced as a game for amusement, primary popular in America, and has curiously earned the place of ‘a device of dark agenda’ due to how it was promoted as a toy.
One only need do a quick search [keyword “Ouija”] to see that those promoting it and those condemning it both are inclined to ‘see’ it in the same light and promote that ‘tradition of understanding’ regarding Ouija.

Manu Iti: To be fair – the use of the principle as a ‘toy’ for amusement laid some of the foundations for this – now traditional belief – regarding Ouija.

William: Certainly.

Manu Iti: In saying this I am pointing towards the certain fact that if one wishes to commune with the Higher Mind, which does indeed incorporate knowledge of what is referred to as ‘the afterlife’ then the individual makes the call – as it were – within the structures of their own beliefs systems (traditions) and this simply interprets accordingly, no matter the device one is using, the mainframe of that device is individual belief system.

William: Thus my particular approach to this particular device was non traditional in the sense that while I believed that it could be a device for ‘talking with spirits’ this was based on the rumour of external tradition of that understanding.
I also understood that there was a shadow of darkness attached to the use of this form of communication but this was not actually part of my belief system. Indeed I approached it more as a scientific journey. I didn’t know it would work when it did work , I didn’t attach any ‘thing’ to it but rather allowed for it to identify itself.

Manu Iti: It needs to be recognised too, that the internet, and all devices of communication, inclusive of this one, are ALL within the mainframe structure of what you are referring to overall as “HMS” as you understand this Tolsap.

William: Yes Tolsap – this is why I make mention of communications devices and how I recognise through use of Ouija reminiscent of the internet - how similar these devices actually are.
This is why I refer to you, and practically everyone using the forum (and internet) as being an ‘invisible entity’ which communicates with me.
Essentially within the framework of this particular form of communication between individual entities of intelligence who are largely invisible to each other and this reminds me a lot of the days when I used the actual UICDevice (ouija) to commune with intelligent invisible ‘entities’.

Manu Iti: “But Wait! There’s more!”

William: Indeed.
Just as on the internet, these invisible entities conversing are able to give off ‘signatures’ which can be interpreted by the receiver through processes.

Manu Iti: These processes are very much dependant upon the individuals own ‘traditions of belief’ and although of course this is not an ideal indication of the actual truth, it nonetheless has the greatest influence over what the individual wants, and to whom the individual will communicate with.
This process is the same for every individual, but the traditions of belief vary considerably – sometime slightly off and sometimes completely in opposition to those personal beliefs.

William: Yes. In my particular case, from the traditional point of view regarding ‘method’ of ‘channelling’ at that time I considered Ouija to be ‘less risky’ than allowing my body to be used by an outside (otherwise regarded NOT of me – separate/external) entity conveying information.

Manu Iti: This is true. William understood himself and identified himself mostly as the human form – the body.

William: Yes – and with this identification, I also understood that I was not inclined to want my body being used by external entities.
Ironically it seems that this form of ‘channelling’ is seen in the traditional sense, as being more acceptable than using Ouija…which is very strange from one point of view. It seems that even those quiet into channelling using al manner of method completely frown upon – if not outwardly attack the use of Ouija as a reliable source of spiritual information.

Manu Iti: This is designed that way.
There are NO communication techniques which ‘the spirits’ cannot use in order to commune with those incarnate in flesh.
Upon examination it can be observed and revealed that the traditional forms of channelled information which are endorse in order of importance (their hierarchy) has to do with which ones help the individual to help themselves and which ones encourage the individual to seek external source in which to commune ‘with the spirits’

William: This is truth. In my own observations, Ouija is considered the worst, and also tarot – although to a far less degree.
To add to what Manu just said, I have spoken about Ouija with those who use the Tarot, and in most instances they consider the Ouija to being an untrustworthy bad thing.

Manu Iti: The reason for these traditional attitudes is that in the case of other types of channelled information there is a ‘medium’ between the ‘seeker’ and the ‘spirit’ which in worldly terminology earns money for the medium.
Therefore any device which effectively cuts out the middle person is for that reason, considered to be ‘dark of agenda’ and not to be trusted and this traditional attitude is solidified in the concrete of rumour and speculation – putting the ‘boogieman’ on ‘the competition’.

William: So in effect, the two aspects of traditional thinking regarding Ouija are what cast the shadows of ‘evil’ upon its use.

Manu Iti: Having spoken of that, we can shift to the more direct answer to your this aspect of your questioning.

Tolsap: What is the wisdom behind the choice you have both made in communicating on the forum in the traditionally recognized format of “channelling” when the materials clearly indicate that channeling, although respected as a form of communication, is still contained within the HMS and is one of the distortions that needs to be identified and intelligently discerned?

William: Yes – the above covers the wisdom ‘behind’ this choice.
In relation to ‘traditionally recognised format of channelling’ having to do with the ‘style of expression’ in the format of a conversation – not at all unlike a script for a play, only it is mostly between two personalities and sometime including more, when ‘quoting’ other forum members.

Manu Iti: To be sure. This is really then only a reflection of what is actually occurring through the medium of the forum using the medium of the internet and the medium of the written word to convey a message.
The message conveyed is = to ‘channelling’ but is not regarded so in ‘the traditional sense or understanding’ but amounts to exactly the same activity, especially in relation to Ouija.

William: As shocking and hard to appreciate and thus accept as it is, it is nonetheless true.
And to personalise this truth even more precisely, the contributing members of this forum – in sharing their personal expression are doing so together largely invisibly to each other.

Manu Iti: Indeed, this includes the internet in general and how it is mostly used by the individual. Skype and other such mediums give visual opportunity, which is closer to ‘normal’ as in how incarnate human communicate.

William: As is evident – in this ‘normal’ world of 3D communication between individuals, the ‘dark intent’ can still be hidden from ‘the other’ and the expression from the con artist (for example) can appear – sound genuine to the listener, but can still prove to be the undoing of the listener who entrusts their [whatever the con-artist is after from them] to that person.

Manu Iti: This practice in assigning trust to the external voice, derives from having no consciousness or experience interacting with the internal voice – the external voice encourages this distrust from the go get.

William: Precisely.

Manu Iti: Having spoken that, we can move towards the question of what exactly IS “the traditionally recognized format of “channelling” and is it as you suggest – are William and I channelling in the traditionally accepted sense of the understanding?

William: The answer is within you Tolsap. I would say the ‘differnence’ between how we as members interact with each other, and how Manu Iti and I interact.
That difference has to do with the understanding that we are all separate as individuals and therefore when we share, we do so with that in mind, and ‘see’ each other as not being of each other. You are ‘you’. I am ‘me’. We are all experiencing separation and thus are ‘allowed’ to think of this type of communication as ‘not channelling’…in the traditionally recognized format of channelling.

Manu Iti: Yet in truth it is channelling, but we understand this is not a traditionally recognised form of channelling. The ‘old ways’ speak differently. The old ways are hierarchal and thus somewhat prone to hypocrisy.

William: And having said as much, although it simply never happened, in using the Ouija device, if I ever thought that there was an unsavoury character communicating unsavoury expressions, I would not have been shy to say so…although occasionally I was taught through that device that my presumptions could be used to teach me something about my attitudes…indeed, using the internet and the forum mediums have also helped to teach me more about the way I express my ‘attitudes’

Manu Iti: And to make changes as necessary. We won’t digress with any story related to those lessons William speaks of – we will just say that there were times when William decided to sulk about they way we chose to apply those lessons, and he wouldn’t speak to us through that medium for many a day while he sorted it out with us through the internal dialog process.

William: And that, yes.

Manu Iti: So Tolsap, in truth, ‘the materials’ you speak of still come from an external source in relation to the information the whole and how you have found that information.
Be that as it may, you appear to trust your own inner intuition to discern ‘the materials’ that collaborate through the resonance of your prior ‘traditions’ – that is the attractor.

William: So the question thus is not really a question – it is really a statement that you find my and Manu’s communication practice to be channelling in the traditional sense of the word and that channelling practices have been given the ‘frown’ because they are of the HMS, and that you want this clarified.

Tolsap: And if you are merely attempting to demonstrate a dominant reality aspect of yourself, (synonymous with James aka Mahu Nahi in his dominant reality), it appears odd that you would display a channeled version of this communication when James has nowhere delivered or implied in his materials that he is “channeling”. James has indicated that he is a translator and I find it fairly evident that he has an exceptional ability to be able to coherently deliver from his Heart’s Intelligence to his Mind.

Manu Iti: William is translating. I am also translating. We are not channelling. I understand that you think that this is what we are doing, but it is not.
In regard to James and Mahu Nahi, the translations are information in a number of form using different mediums, and at least in one instance James has indeed channelled Nahu Nahi in a traditionally recognised format, as Mahu Nahi introduces Itself, and offers those who feel to, the invitation to call upon ‘him’ ie – invoke – but to do so with in mind that respect is extended.
Now you tolsap and any other might decide that in doing this, James has not ‘channelled’ Mahu Nahi but only ‘translated’ but to do so you would have to avoid the necessary questions which arise from the subsequent interview re Camelot, where James speaks of the HMS programmes and channelling. The most obvious question would have to be in regard to James and Mahu Nahi’s relationship – has that relationship altered, and if so – to what extent and what is James now saying in regard to that relationship?

William: And from our perspective, there have been no changes in that relationship. James is still very much connected with the aspect of Mahu Nahi. He brings that aspect through in different ways, most of which shy away from peoples understanding of ‘traditionally understood’ channelling.

Manu Iti: These ways are not disconnected from Mahu Nahi. This is the essence of the point of recognising the ‘parts’ of the whole self and reintergrating with those ‘parts’ with an absolute consideration that they are not separate or outside or somehow ‘other than’ who you truly are.
So one could ‘ask’ James regarding this, or one can simple listen to what James has to say already which he has shared.
He speaks a great deal about this connection with The Self of Quantum Presence (aka higher self) in his interview with Mark.
James is also not working alone is regard to his role with and for Lyricus – he is – in his anonymous projection, nonetheless the ‘mouthpiece’ in regard to the sharing of Lyricus Information into the public domain.

William: The other aspect which James has not kept hidden from the public is his connection with Mahu Nahi nor does he keep to himself that Lyricus consists of entities who are interdimensional for the most part do not reside within 3D as their dominant reality.
James is no different from you and I in this, except that his awareness of these natural and real connections are more practiced than most…he is awake and we are awakening.

Manu Iti: This in no way inhibits or otherwise causes a barrier between the individual human in 3D and their counterparts within the other overlapping dimensions. The ‘act’ of awakening IS about your sustained lving and growing connection and relationship with your Quantum Self and in this, your expression will reflect that relationship. That is your hearts intelligence and you integration with the Higher Mind.

James to A’shayana: You also imply that the Corteum and WingMakers are one and the same. Again, the Ancient Arrow Project is something I’m quite familiar with. I wrote it. It came from my mind to the paper. It was not channeled. So, please explain how you know more about the true identity of the characters that I created than I do?
Extract from email to A’shayana Deane from James.

Manu Iti: The implication is likely based on what James has shared with the public domain, regarding himself and Mahu Nahi.
The full content of this letter (where you take the above quote from) needs to be looked into, but for the purpose of this reply, I would like to simply quote A’shayana:

A’shayana: I'm writing this note to you to let you know that the GA & I would like to respond to Jame's posted letter (& to his very accusatory personal e-mail to me) if you would be kind enough to post my letter on your site also.
I'd also like to call to your attention that whatever copyright infringements James has hinted that I have done do not apply for the following reason: In our 2002 Publication of my/GA "Voyagers-Secrets of Amenti-2nd Edition" non-fiction book (Granite Publishing), on pages 553-554, the GA provided a commentary of their opinion pertaining to a group of actual, not fictional, "service to self" ETs, who are "commonly known in the public domain" as the Wingmakers & Corteum and the earth human "Labyrinth Group" associated with the "Ancient Arrow" archaeological site, whom according to the GA are being covertly manipulated and deceived by the aforementioned non-fictional ET groups. This information has been in published form in my book for 8 years, through which period I had no personal knowledge of "James' fictional Wingmakers" story. My knowledge of the subject was limited to the commentary the GA published in 2002 and that the names the GA chose to use in their transmission were "commonly known in the public domain" in "some form or another", and thus the GA had the right to make commentary and express their opinion regarding names that could be found in the public domain. If there was any unintentional "right infringements" in our use of those names, my publisher saw no issue with it in 2002; the book is still in print just as it was published in 2002 as a 2nd Edition to my 1999 1st edition.

Manu Iti: A’shayana continues:

Personally, I'm wondering at this point if James' fiction story was a bit more "directly inspired" or channeled than he realizes...but either way the GA's "Wingmakers" commentary was a small part of a much larger verbatim transmission on numerous subjects that is in my 2002 book, and THAT information is directly a part of the GA's CDT-Plate historical information (there are 24 Ancient Arrow trans-harmonic star-gate sites on earth, that were created by and originally belonged to the GA-Elohei and related Mashaya-hana Adashi Adept councils; 7 of these 24 sites fell into the hands of the HISTORICAL "Wingmakers"/"Corteum" non-fiction ET groups.). An interesting question for me is "Did James invent these names as he says he did, or did his "spiritual inspiration" actually give him those names from the CDT-Plate historical record, which is "common knowledge' among most ET races?

Manu Iti: There is a hint of ‘glossy magazine’ in these exchanges.

William: The information is most likely formed this way through less than careful examining of sources.
James in the earliest days of making himself ‘known’ did identify himself with Mahu Nahi, and Mahu Nahi with the Corteum Race and the Corteum Race with the ACIO Labyrinth Group, and they with ‘WingMakers’ in relation to the AA story.
That alone would be enough for the conspiracy theorist to conclude that Corteum have a dark agenda and this is likely the reason for the attachment

Manu Iti: There is little point in turning a blind eye to those facts of fiction.

William: Somehow the rumours simply grew – as is most often the case, and the concepts adapted to other pieces of information regarding ‘Alien Agenda’ dark or light.

Manu Iti: If James is saying to A’shayana that The Corteum are an alien specie with dark agenda, then this could well be looked into from the point of view of the story presented regarding Corteum, and also where the ‘rumour’ came from that Mahu Nahi was a member of this race gives the distinct impression that have been provided recently from this link. ... makers.pdf

William: On this page can be found this.


Manu Iti: One thus could be forgiven for thinking that the WingMakers and the Corteum are the same Race, because of the heading Prime Objective of Labyrinth Group and WingMakers is inferring a partnership of some kind.

William: To add to this (mis?) understanding – further down John writes these words, leaving no room for doubt that the connections are definitely, undeniably there.


Manu Iti: On the surface yes, it would appear so.

William: Yes. The point in case is that this information leads people to think such conclusion – that WingMakers and Corteum are one and the same.
But it does not lead to the conclusion that the Corteum or WingMakers are of dark agenda.

I can be likened to a translator who "transports" already existing Tributary Zones to earth in the form of a comprehensible sensory data stream. This data stream will have both explicit and implicit content that incarnating souls will be tuned to recognize. This material will awaken them to the blueprints of discovery that were encoded into their DNA at conception.

My information -- as it pertains to the WingMakers' material -- derives from the seven Tributary Zones that were created by this very same teaching organization. I was involved in the design of these Tributary Zones, and consequently commissioned to translate them into data streams appropriate for the human neuroanatomical system, which required my incarnation into a human body.
James Q & A

Manu Iti: The requirement was simply so that the information could be thus shared through James, the name of the incarnated.
The one commissioned to do this incarnating, was Mahu Nahi.
Mahu Nahi was involved in the designing of these seven tributary zones.

Question 9: Who/what are you James? Where do you get your information from?

In my dominant reality, I am known as Mahu Nahi. I am a member of a teaching organization whose roots are very ancient, but paradoxically, very connected with humanity's future. This teaching organization is concerned with transporting a sensory data stream to earth in order to catalyze select individuals of the next three generations to bring innovations to the fields of science, art, and philosophy. These innovations will enable the discovery and establishment of the Grand Portal on earth.

William: Now this speaks clearly that James in his incarnation is well aware of his self as Mahu Nahi and he would not consider this connection and transference of information to be connected to the usual traditionally understood practices of channelling.

Manu Iti: Of course not. He simple acknowledges that he is aware of – in this case – another part of himself is known as ‘Mahu Nahi’ and so the information the incarnated James receives from the non-incarnated Mahu Nahi is coming from himself – albeit another aspect of himself but nonetheless himself, and thus, under the ‘rules’ of traditional understanding of channelled’ information, the practitioner connects to something they see as being ‘apart from their self or external – someone else.

William: There are two items I would like to quote from old writings regarding my use of Ouija.

    1:The reason These Entities are a part of My SoulGroup has as much to do with My Own belief Systems as in anything else.
    Most, especially The Jehovah Principle, I have had serious need to address.
    Mary was a enigma for I have never been a Roman Catholic and have given little thought to Her as an Entity.
    Bobbyn and I have asked and received a couple of Names of the members of Bobbyn's Own SoulGroup. ( We have seperate Entities)
    Bobbyn and I never pushed for more Names as I (mainly) have been dealing with these famous 'Names' and in all honesty, have been distracted by Them.
    The distraction is in itself a lesson.

    2; All Communication with these so called 'Spirits' are done through Symbolic
    >You people seem to be tricking youselves as to 'what' it is you are all
    >communicating with.
    >And you also think that it is an inferior intellect that is 'trying' to
    >a message' to you all!!
    >They are not inferiour
    >They are Intelligent in the Extreme!
    >And they are not...NOT you dead relatives...

These were written many years ago now, and the 2nd message is from a forum to do with Ouija ‘message boards’ and my claiming Ouija was not connecting with dead relatives.
I softened my answer due to the offence I had committed, making claims which contradicted the mainstream beliefs, with this:

    3: What I meant was little more than....ask
    them...I am not saying thay are not your passed over Loved Ones...I am
    saying that they may have some information on others who are communicating
    throug the Device....after all the Deivce seems to have that quality about may not be an exclusive link to the "other side"

    It may also be linked to subconscious and superconscious reality and it may
    be linked to telepathy and all of the above and more.

    From the stories one can hear, it appears to be linked to a rather huge
    power source of Uncharted Territory.
    Uses of the Device need to explored.
    Understand the potential of the equipment you all are using...Doe's
    everybody trust their Devices?

The reason I share these is to underline that I learned through using the device of Ouija that I was and had been all the while, communing with aspects of my self, and that with the event of the WingMakers philosophies, this conceptual understanding about a complex subject helped me to better understand how this was even possible.

Manu Iti: Indeed. We work with what we have, and in regards to the awakening human individual, this usually includes those individuals belief systems.
Those beliefs do need to change, but the task of helping the individual ‘past self’ let go of those beliefs is a tricky one to undertake successfully.
Fortunately William proved to be mostly open to learning this fundamental lesson.
I use the word ‘fortunately’ very loosely. There really was no fortuitous or otherwise accidental process involved. From Williams perspective it did appear like this, and in that light I express ‘fortunately’ but in truth, from the Quantum Perspective, it was a given – simply because it happened that way.

Please do not misunderstand my personal perceptions about channeling, for I do not reject them, (to pick up a phone and speak to a person in another country is no different to me than picking up a frequency that allows one to communicate with a being from another world), but the bottom line is that to share your perceptions and experiences of the Materials using this two-way communication is indicative of “dialing a friend” and this is what you are promoting; regardless of whether, in your case, you are saying you are communicating with yourself.

Manu Iti: I appreciate your perception and wonder what it is then that you understand about James’ communications and subsequent interpretation of Mahu Nahi?
Because this would be ‘the difference’ yes?
Now one awakening is not awakened and essentially Williams own awakening is being expressed as an exercise in preparation for ‘the real thing’ as it were, or ‘Even better than the real thing’ as U2 would convey.

William: Correct – and in relation to Lyricus, it is not merely a ‘story’ to me, it is real…and is able to communicate with or without any ‘mediums’ and ‘talking WITH myself’ is acceptable and sharing that communion is in no way ‘channelling in the traditionally recognised format’.

I apologize for my “assumption” but I would have presumed that you would have been understanding, compassionate and appreciative that this mode of communication would be viewed as somewhat sensitive here and therefore perhaps “unwise” to use, as surely you would have known it would be a mode of communication that would be a catalyst for conflict and this is where I am unsure as to why you claim your “Sovereign Integral Perspective” is wisely supportive of this.

Manu Iti: Now are you simply saying that you do not yourself see this method of communion and sharing is something reflecting understanding, compassion and understanding, and also see that a few others – in there own way – have expressed the same?

William: Namely – Darlene, Carollynn and Deborah.

Manu Iti: “viewed sensitively here” - signifying the forum as that medium platform.
The answer is, that a handful of ‘sensitives’ are not exempt from the mission of connecting with their higher selves and thus expressing that connection into the external world of 3D.
That IS the message.
Certainly it is being done in a gentle and reasonable manner with no intent to cast negative energy into this environment shared by many, a handful too who appreciate the effort.

William: Indeed, individuals who are sensitive to this and respond with conflict – or attempts to draw me into conflict – cannot blame the messenger or the message or how the message is delivered or the fact that the message conflicts with their own beliefs because they are responsible for there own responses, expressions emotions sensitivities and hostilities and perceived enemies.

Manu Iti: The catalyst for anything is simply unavoidable Tolsap.
We have shared the understanding of this in prior offerings.
Simply put, my counsel with William was to appreciate those who try to become barriers of conflict and use the transformed energy to move around the obstacles with grace and ease.
Use these as a catalyst.

William: Also remember Tolsap – the everyone is free to make their concerns known to Admin, and only recently admin banned a newbie for their expressions.
Obviously there is a limit.
Obviously Admin keeps and eye on things fairly regularly.
Obviously Admin is given notice of something ‘sensitive’ to some members and does investigate pretty promptly.
Obviously Admin has decided that I can share what I do the way I do – my own unique expressions.
Obviously Admin regards the expressions of my sensitive critics to be allowed.

Manu Iti: …We all work with what we have.

William: [nods]

All The Vows of Faithfulness, all the Ceremonies of love, and all the feelings of hope should be centered and given over to the Sovereign Entity that we each are.
Godless attitudes don't belong in this forum

Last edited by The Watcher on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.


 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:32 am 
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:33 am 
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
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 Post subject: Re: William and Manu Iti
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:35 am 
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