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 Post subject: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:22 am 
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TERMINOLOGY
I am a WingMaker. You too are a WingMaker. I was consciously aware of my WM origins, personal skills, and purpose, well before the material was published, as were others. One of the significant personal rewards for being able to access the WM materials was the accuracy and finesse the decoding provided in being able to furnish us all with a strong base for communication; as communication prior to this was exceedingly difficult to articulate and therefore rarely attempted. Thank “God”/ “First Source” for James and his supreme skill.

As we are aware, First Source is a carefully orchestrated override term for God, as it allows us to approach it with an emptiness and newness to our understanding and intelligence of what First Source is, (therefore aiding in the whitewashing of preconceived notions). And, of course, there are many new terminologies that we have been presented with. The interpretations not being contained within their respective titles, but within their respective meanings and associations.

I too have studied all of the WM material faithfully and bear its affinity; however, I am not skilled in always being able to accurately reflect terminologies, or points of reference, when I am speaking. Perhaps there are others that have the same handicaps. So I will continue with my shared communication, with the view that others may respectfully use their skills to assist with my limitations, (as I have already been rewarded with in the short time I have been here). This is not to imply, however, that I denounce my responsibilities toward being as specific as possible, and thereby I impose no demands or expectations, simply gratitude for future cooperation.

DISCOURSE
I do personally agree with the forum rules that discussions about the WM material be absolute. A classroom of chemists is certainly not interested in a participating physics student steering the course materials toward their specialized area. Having said that, chemistry and physics walk side-by-side and at times hand-in-hand, and thus a healthy coalition can have enormous benefit.

I noticed in another thread there was mention made of an initial WM forum being closed due to (quote:) “new age blurb” holding the stage, (and thankyou Starduster if you are here, for informing of this in another of my threads). This forum has therefore carefully defined very distinct rules, which are, appropriately in place to prevent a reoccurrence of WMM losing its tenure. Once again, I wholeheartedly agree with this principal.

I would like to suggest, however, that erecting such a valid fortress may have brought forth a domain that runs the risks of being impenetrable by WingMakers who are beginning to make transition from their respected conventions, as well as practicing WingMakers who require a communal platform to engage in from time to time. As much as the “new age blurb” previously went to the extreme, is it possible that the opposite extreme has taken hold. Is it possible that attention to appropriating a balanced discussion room is imminent?

It can be fair to assume that the majority of members have come from some form of religious or new-age setting. It could also be fair to assume that there are members and visitors that are exploring outside of their conventions as they are looking for “more”; and, most certainly, a majority will find it within the WMM; be it expeditiously, or by returning to the materials at various intervals throughout their lives. I therefore find this forum to be a wonderful doorway, and in as much as it does not need to be adorned with a talisman, it does not need to be impervious.

I remember all too well the times when I was steeped in a philosophy, (for descriptive purposes let’s use the Seth Material as a label). When this became the greatest body of works that I had ever come across and it provided a solace to my yearnings for truth, it became my “friend”. If another person voraciously challenged my comfort zone, I would not hear, let alone appreciate, what they were trying to share, and in an attempt to protect my “friend” would engage in verbal combat. As life progressed and my period of illusionary completeness was over, my metamorphosing continued. But to this day, I still remember the fondness I had for my Seth days.

So much so, that if a conversation begins and my counterpart expresses a great reverence for the Seth material, I thoroughly enjoy the nostalgia that this conversation brings. I am able to say, “ooh yes I remember that, and, ooh yeah I loved that too”. I find I am able to use virtues of appreciation and gratitude to “my old friend” - the Seth material, for the time we spent together. Much like looking fondly back at a childhood photo and enjoying the memories it evokes.

More importantly, however, the bond between myself and this individual has gracefully grown stronger. My counterpart will experience a sense of security that allows them to respectfully inquire as to why I have moved on from the Seth material, of which I undoubtedly have affection for, and what is it that brings me completeness now. This does not validate my response to be synonymous with a sermon; it merely opens a doorway for me to share knowledge of other levels of transformation, without coercion or expectation for my counterpart to achieve same. Should my counterpart resonate to our deepening bond they will make attempts to progress; but if they choose to remain secure in their zone then our paths will naturally flow in different directions. The beauty of this exchange was the absence of conflict which was never allowed to disrupt the harmony of this unity.

It is better to understand little than to misunderstand a lot. (Quote from Anatole France)

Now, as much as this is by no means a revolutionary set of communication skills, they can at times be difficult to practice exclusively. When time is repeatedly taken to pause, align, … pause, align, … pause, align … then these skills can be accomplished and administered to every single word that emits from our thoughts. (This technique concerns living in the now principles and I look forward to expanded discussions with members on this topic in another dedicated thread.) I personally conclude that I do not see benefit in an overzealous protection of the forum if it were to preclude individuals seeking the tools to find their wholeness.

Having said that, one of the components of my individuality is warrior by nature and I will resolve to refuse entry to my home when an individual, after a substantial time of interaction, reveals intentions that are not desirous of genuine association. When rare cases occur whereby an individual’s intentions are directed at seeking to manipulate and control my environment, I will firmly ban them from returning.

I respect that the forum is without a moderator as it provides all WingMakers the opportunity to exercise and practice their skills as facilitators. Would members be interested in having a discussion as to whether the forum is comfortable and willing to allow members the opportunity to walk through the door and reveal their “comfort zones”, at which time WingMakers gently, but constructively, assist with overlaying WMM onto the format that they are familiar with. When this is achieved, without conflict, it will become evident that not only has the WMM transposed over their format but it has revealed a format yet to be explored. A more active participation with the WMM can then be supported and guided.

I look forward to our discussions.


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:04 am 
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To set the record straight, as I was part of that first forum and was part of the decision that it had devolved to the point that it needed to be shut down as the posting were not following the rules given. It came down not from "new age..." but for offensive sexual postings.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:27 am 
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Thank you dberges, (may I call you Darlene?).

Oh how the tapestry unravels. An injustice was served. The sound of tenderness was heard. Warriors rose to defend, and a commendable force hath endured.

Warriors have heard you from far away. They come with their honour, to stand by your side. For you to bathe in the music of your poets, the wisdom from your partners, and the warmth of your angels. Know too that many more have come to bear you their gifts.


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:47 am 
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Tolsap wrote:
TERMINOLOGY
I am a WingMaker. You too are a WingMaker. I was consciously aware of my WM origins, personal skills, and purpose, well before the material was published, as were others. One of the significant personal rewards for being able to access the WM materials was the accuracy and finesse the decoding provided in being able to furnish us all with a strong base for communication; as communication prior to this was exceedingly difficult to articulate and therefore rarely attempted. Thank “God”/ “First Source” for James and his supreme skill.

As we are aware, First Source is a carefully orchestrated override term for God, as it allows us to approach it with an emptiness and newness to our understanding and intelligence of what First Source is, (therefore aiding in the whitewashing of preconceived notions). And, of course, there are many new terminologies that we have been presented with. The interpretations not being contained within their respective titles, but within their respective meanings and associations.

I too have studied all of the WM material faithfully and bear its affinity; however, I am not skilled in always being able to accurately reflect terminologies, or points of reference, when I am speaking. Perhaps there are others that have the same handicaps. So I will continue with my shared communication, with the view that others may respectfully use their skills to assist with my limitations, (as I have already been rewarded with in the short time I have been here). This is not to imply, however, that I denounce my responsibilities toward being as specific as possible, and thereby I impose no demands or expectations, simply gratitude for future cooperation.

DISCOURSE
I do personally agree with the forum rules that discussions about the WM material be absolute. A classroom of chemists is certainly not interested in a participating physics student steering the course materials toward their specialized area. Having said that, chemistry and physics walk side-by-side and at times hand-in-hand, and thus a healthy coalition can have enormous benefit.

I noticed in another thread there was mention made of an initial WM forum being closed due to (quote:) “new age blurb” holding the stage, (and thankyou Starduster if you are here, for informing of this in another of my threads). This forum has therefore carefully defined very distinct rules, which are, appropriately in place to prevent a reoccurrence of WMM losing its tenure. Once again, I wholeheartedly agree with this principal.

I would like to suggest, however, that erecting such a valid fortress may have brought forth a domain that runs the risks of being impenetrable by WingMakers who are beginning to make transition from their respected conventions, as well as practicing WingMakers who require a communal platform to engage in from time to time. As much as the “new age blurb” previously went to the extreme, is it possible that the opposite extreme has taken hold. Is it possible that attention to appropriating a balanced discussion room is imminent?

It can be fair to assume that the majority of members have come from some form of religious or new-age setting. It could also be fair to assume that there are members and visitors that are exploring outside of their conventions as they are looking for “more”; and, most certainly, a majority will find it within the WMM; be it expeditiously, or by returning to the materials at various intervals throughout their lives. I therefore find this forum to be a wonderful doorway, and in as much as it does not need to be adorned with a talisman, it does not need to be impervious.

I remember all too well the times when I was steeped in a philosophy, (for descriptive purposes let’s use the Seth Material as a label). When this became the greatest body of works that I had ever come across and it provided a solace to my yearnings for truth, it became my “friend”. If another person voraciously challenged my comfort zone, I would not hear, let alone appreciate, what they were trying to share, and in an attempt to protect my “friend” would engage in verbal combat. As life progressed and my period of illusionary completeness was over, my metamorphosing continued. But to this day, I still remember the fondness I had for my Seth days.

So much so, that if a conversation begins and my counterpart expresses a great reverence for the Seth material, I thoroughly enjoy the nostalgia that this conversation brings. I am able to say, “ooh yes I remember that, and, ooh yeah I loved that too”. I find I am able to use virtues of appreciation and gratitude to “my old friend” - the Seth material, for the time we spent together. Much like looking fondly back at a childhood photo and enjoying the memories it evokes.

More importantly, however, the bond between myself and this individual has gracefully grown stronger. My counterpart will experience a sense of security that allows them to respectfully inquire as to why I have moved on from the Seth material, of which I undoubtedly have affection for, and what is it that brings me completeness now. This does not validate my response to be synonymous with a sermon; it merely opens a doorway for me to share knowledge of other levels of transformation, without coercion or expectation for my counterpart to achieve same. Should my counterpart resonate to our deepening bond they will make attempts to progress; but if they choose to remain secure in their zone then our paths will naturally flow in different directions. The beauty of this exchange was the absence of conflict which was never allowed to disrupt the harmony of this unity.

It is better to understand little than to misunderstand a lot. (Quote from Anatole France)

Now, as much as this is by no means a revolutionary set of communication skills, they can at times be difficult to practice exclusively. When time is repeatedly taken to pause, align, … pause, align, … pause, align … then these skills can be accomplished and administered to every single word that emits from our thoughts. (This technique concerns living in the now principles and I look forward to expanded discussions with members on this topic in another dedicated thread.) I personally conclude that I do not see benefit in an overzealous protection of the forum if it were to preclude individuals seeking the tools to find their wholeness.

Having said that, one of the components of my individuality is warrior by nature and I will resolve to refuse entry to my home when an individual, after a substantial time of interaction, reveals intentions that are not desirous of genuine association. When rare cases occur whereby an individual’s intentions are directed at seeking to manipulate and control my environment, I will firmly ban them from returning.

I respect that the forum is without a moderator as it provides all WingMakers the opportunity to exercise and practice their skills as facilitators. Would members be interested in having a discussion as to whether the forum is comfortable and willing to allow members the opportunity to walk through the door and reveal their “comfort zones”, at which time WingMakers gently, but constructively, assist with overlaying WMM onto the format that they are familiar with. When this is achieved, without conflict, it will become evident that not only has the WMM transposed over their format but it has revealed a format yet to be explored. A more active participation with the WMM can then be supported and guided.

I look forward to our discussions.



It is with great pleasure that I quote, what you have shared with us, it is IMO definitely worth repeating, and I am humbled/empowered by your ability to express your self, with such clarity. I appreciate your perspective, and resonate with its intentions to bring us "wholeness" ... I get what you are saying about perhaps "taking it to the other extreme" and will adjust with your perspective, gratefully. It actually is a great relief to see the WMF from your perspective which rejects nothing :D

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Just to add another historical note ... there has been more than one Wingmakers forum which was "shut down" over the years. In some cases the antagonism in these forums reached levels that made it difficult to distinguish the Wingmakers content from the personal content. Even this forum has had its share of the same issues ... on both sides of the continuum (rigidity and "dogma" on one end and completely disconnected postings and personal attacks on the other).

My personal belief is that every poster will over time slowly "connect" their own personal dots to the WMM and sometimes the "wanderings" in various threads have deeper Wingmaker connections than the specific words and/or more surface meanings of the materials themselves. The slow unfoldment of each individuals perspective and the recognition that all perspectives of the WMM are part of an individual journey of understanding can lead to surprising insights for those that take the time and have the patience ... and courage ... to break their own current "definitions" or their belief of what is the "correct" perspective of any of the materials.

Sometimes I believe it takes patience, and a genuine desire to see the many different perspectives of the WMM, to break the barriers of our own perceptions. This I believe is the context where the forum discussions can lead to the "kindling effect" that has been mentioned before. Any position that "I know better than you" or simple one or two word "cliches" about our perception of another's perspective can invariably lead to the same type of conflicts that have characterized so many Wingmakers forums of the past (and present).

Your example of The Seth Materials was a perfect example as I too have many fond memories of this library of knowledge that was one of several that had a deep affect on my life.

In some "yet to be discovered way" ... that is quite possibly connected to the Event Temples ... the members of this forum and the perspectives and connections that they share in both obvious and not so obvious ways could easily be another of the many data streams that flow from the transition zones and become part of the larger WMM meta library.

Phoenix


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:49 pm 
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I am drenched with joy and pride for your shared strengths and your companionship; for a long time ago, when told the path of loneliness I had chosen to tread would subsist, whilst there were still so few, there would come a time when more and more would draw together.

We are the physical manifest of the text. And as each page, canvas and sound is turned over, we reveal the perfection of our origins, we release the unfolding story. We are the three-dimensional book of life, artfully representing every intricate paragraph. We are authors aligned with our inspiration to create what has never been experienced before.

I dwell in the overwhelming solidity of your presence.


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:08 pm 
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my perspectives of being "on topic" is , that when we all share our perspectives ... we have a wholeness perspective ... no matter how small our numbers, if we are all contributing, then it is as whole as it gets

personally, I expect different views ... but instead of that I get, "you think your perspective is the only one" ... wellllll duh, if it is the ONLY ONE OFFERED and that isn't my FAULT, but if you percieve it as a "fault" then it is yours to deal with ...


sorry... did I get off topic LOL ?

Our consciousness is Individuated ... but the WMMs are not - they are open and welcome all perspectives ... no one is wrong or right, when being honest about how they perceive them...especially in this topic about BEing "on topic" ...

being On Topic allows us to focus on one concept at a time and to build our new consensus reality on a foundation of Universal Truth ... from this point on. Tell us what you KNOW, not what you believe (at the moment) and allow yourself to be flexible, or you can't get into alignment with the sensory data stream ... because you resist a wholeness perspective when you didn't contribute yours to the topic ... and not only that you dis-allow, the rest of us from having the benefits of you Individuated Consciousness by with-holding your perspective .

Its, UN wholy (snicker)

personally, Phoenix, I do not believe there is any new intelligence coming from anywhere else but the Galactic TZ ... the rest is stuff that we call "truth" has been bouncing around the 3D for eons ... someone latches on to it and it is passed from one fragmented state of consciousness to another, until the original message is dust in the wind. Even core wisdoms have been redefined beyond recognition and require blind faith - and that we live in small compartmentalized boxes ... far removed from any sensory data stream that may reveal our true identity.

"cosmic soup" that we are wont to swim in... and many drown in its bottomless depths, when they are unaware of its narcotic effect
Our "personal wisdom" is not new either - it is coming from our core - and what we all have in common (origns and destiny)

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:34 am 
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Perhaps not too surprisingly, our individual perspective of what is "on topic", what constitutes a "wholeness perspective", and what "encourages" the kindling effect seems to be fairly different. Hopefully I can point to some of what you said to highlight these differences, not for the purpose of convincing anyone ... including you of course ... whose perspective is "better", but to see if we can celebrate even major differences as being part of a wholeness perspective without resorting to a version of "my way is better than yours".

Quote:
my perspectives of being "on topic" is , that when we all share our perspectives ... we have a wholeness perspective ... no matter how small our numbers, if we are all contributing, then it is as whole as it gets


For me too a wholeness perspective does not depend on what someone else posts. It is simply recognizing that no matter what they post they are part of a "whole". In other words, there is nothing about them or their method of expression I need to change to "bring them into alignment" as no matter what they say, it is up to me to see it as part of a larger wholeness. This doesn't mean that I won't "disagree" or even have some fun with the differences ... but only that I do not wish for anyone to change for my sake or because of what I say.

I'm not sure though how this connects with your "suggestion" that Tolsap leave the forum when he was sharing his perspective and contributing his unique expression and you focused instead on his topic title and how far "astray" he was rather than his contribution. From my perspective his topic title was very appropriate ... but then that could also be expected as for me it strongly connects with another topic that was similar (the Universal Entity thread that we had so much fun with) and is very relevant to the WMM.

Quote:
personally, I expect different views ... but instead of that I get, "you think your perspective is the only one" ... wellllll duh, if it is the ONLY ONE OFFERED and that isn't my FAULT, but if you percieve it as a "fault" then it is yours to deal with ...


sorry... did I get off topic LOL ?


I'm just not clear on what you are trying to say here so I will leave this alone ... except to say that yes ... from my perspective ... it is a comment that is more personal in nature and doesn't seem to be related to the topic of being on topic. If you think that it is however then that is good enough for me <smiling>. I'd be interested in how you think it connects. Is it connected to the reactions you sometimes get when you tell someone they should consider "leaving the forum" for posting their perspective?

Quote:
Our consciousness is Individuated ... but the WMMs are not - they are open and welcome all perspectives ... no one is wrong or right, when being honest about how they perceive them...especially in this topic about BEing "on topic" ...


We certainly disagree here regarding individuation and it's nature but does the wholeness perspective require our agreement or sameness? Do feet have the same role and function as hands? I don't think so. Again, I find some of your perspectives to be rather funny or even sometimes "strange" but I also enjoy that "funnyness" (is there such a word?) and my world wouldn't be the same without it. I also think that some of the perspectives shown by many other people over the course of my life are funny/ironic/sad/bizarre/destructive/fill in the blank ... but that doesn't make my opinions "correct". I wouldn't change any one of these people or their perspectives as they all have meaning to me in many ways and are often catalytic.

Quote:
being On Topic allows us to focus on one concept at a time and to build our new consensus reality on a foundation of Universal Truth ... from this point on.


I am personally not particularly interested in building a consensus reality based on the narrow continuum of conscious agreement alone or even from anybody's perspective of Universal Truth. Single lines of thought that don't have the context of other ideas that they connect with are also for me somehow "sterile". For me Universal truth is closer to a changing mythology than it is to an agreement on factual material. It is an inner fluid perspective that allows for all things to exist in the universe in the knowledge that everything is a part of a whole that continues to grow and transform. Nothing is finished, not even words written on a computer screen, even if those words are never amended. This is similar to re-reading a meaningful book years later and discovering that you never really knew how much you missed the first time.

Quote:
Tell us what you KNOW, not what you believe (at the moment) and allow yourself to be flexible, or you can't get into alignment with the sensory data stream ... because you resist a wholeness perspective when you didn't contribute yours to the topic ... and not only that you dis-allow, the rest of us from having the benefits of you Individuated Consciousness by with-holding your perspective .


Now in this is one of the fundamental differences between us. You believe that you know something that is outside belief itself. I believe that what I "think" I know is simply another layer of belief. I believe that it is this belief that you know something that results in some of the "friction" that is sometimes evident in your posts and interactions with others (such as your recent initial reaction to Tolsap). Now don't take this wrong ... I wouldn't have it any other way (and clearly Tolsap is quite able to look after himself) ... as this friction has been the basis for much of our dance together in times past and of much enjoyment for me (and hopefully you as well) as I don't take our disagreements or your methods of expression personally. Your concepts of "resistance" and "IGNOREance" are also not the same as mine but I certainly recognize that your use of these "terms" is unique to you and helps "define" your individuality. For me it is my enjoyment of our interactions ... no matter what they may "look like" ... that is the basis of a wholeness perspective.

Quote:
Its, UN wholy (snicker)


lol. Did you know by the way that a snicker is a sign of disrespect according to "consensus reality" ie. the dictionary definition http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snicker. While you may not use it in the way that it is almost "universally" understood, it may not be so easy for new people to discern that is is part of your uniqueness and something that you don't really mean according to the way the language is normally used. I imagine that it's possible that you already knew this and chose to use it as a method of "testing" people however there may be some who take it personally as a sign of mocking them rather than as an invitation to "dance". I guess that UN wholy is AS(S) hol(e)Y as anything else lol.

Quote:
personally, Phoenix, I do not believe there is any new intelligence coming from anywhere else but the Galactic TZ ... the rest is stuff that we call "truth" has been bouncing around the 3D for eons ... someone latches on to it and it is passed from one fragmented state of consciousness to another, until the original message is dust in the wind.


This paragraph probably deserves a whole topic as there is much to say about it. Parts of it we are strongly in alignment (the part about latching on) and part of it we are completely on opposite ends of the spectrum (the part about new intelligence) however this is way too much for a topic about being on topic.

Quote:
Even core wisdoms have been redefined beyond recognition and require blind faith - and that we live in small compartmentalized boxes ... far removed from any sensory data stream that may reveal our true identity.


I'm not sure I am understanding what you mean here correctly but I believe that core wisdoms are constantly being redefined ... including the WMM ... as they are living creations that grow as much as we do. I don't believe in "blind faith" ... except as a concept that some people believe in ... as I believe that faith itself is not blind in any way when it is sourced from within (which part of the individuated consciousness it comes from and what it really is is probably another topic as well). I also don't believe that it is possible to be far removed from any sensory data stream that may reveal our true identity as the data streams are all around us in every moment of our lives ... however I do believe that some believe that they are removed from it and their life seems to reflect this, at least from a narrower perspective.

Quote:
"cosmic soup" that we are wont to swim in... and many drown in its bottomless depths, when they are unaware of its narcotic effect
Our "personal wisdom" is not new either - it is coming from our core - and what we all have in common (origns and destiny)


I guess it could be argued that any one of us is "drowning" in any perspective or "drugged" with a rigid belief system ... even those that we believe on a personal level to be "aligned" with WMM. I would personally risk drowning and try to "dive deeper" than stay near the surface and stay safe in the more surface meanings that I may find there. I also believe that every expression of "personal wisdom" is new in the same way that sunsets never repeat themselves even though they may be similar to many we have seen before and be taken for granted. It is in the differences ... even minute ones ... that uniqueness and "newness" becomes evident. This "newness" for me is very connected to gratitude. I believe that the entire universe is contained in its smallest expression (we have gone down this "universal entity" road before <smiling>)

In any case, my purpose here was to try to give examples of why for me what is "on topic" or "aligned" may be much different than you and also why my sense of a "wholeness perspective" may also include the language and expression of others that I have not had the time to fully understand or appreciate (or even rationally disagree with). I also know that from your own personal perspective, your understanding of the WMM is aligned and coherent even if I may sometimes disagree. It is in our differences ... enjoyed and welcomed as a catalyst for growth, dancing, and changing understanding ... that I believe our interactions have their greatest meaning. If the concept of "on topic" allows for this, then the scope of every thread could become much wider and more inclusive and the "surprises" and the gems of understanding or insight that synchronistic connections can lead to can become the "norm".

So the bottom line for me is that each person is welcome to decide for themselves if what they are posting is connected to the WMM or the topic at hand and if any of us don't understand the connection in the poster's mind, we are always free to ask "how is this connected?". As you know ... I have always believed that questions lead to so much more than answers ... especially if our "answers" include an assumption about what exists in someone else's mind and can only really be known by them.

Phoenix


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:50 am 
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Tell me the Truth.....never will....never will................................................until that point when we are fully First Source......are we capable of doing so ?


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:55 am 
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well, Phoenix, IMO, your reply to my perspectives of "on topic" is the perfect example of you comparing what YOU believe, to what you belive -I believe ... which in itself, is not "discussing the WMMs" -it is discussing our BSs ... unless you actually believe that what I am telling you is what I KNOW from using the WMMs to come to that conclusion (which would allow you to appreciate my assistance)... or I have discerned that you KNOW what you are talking about - it is a waste of time. But, if I could, give you a quote, that shows you how each of my statements are aligned to the Plan of FS ... based upon my Individuated Consciousness and my life experiences.... including where, I suggests that Tolsap (and many others) find another path, if he did not join the forum to discuss the WMMs ... you may be more inclined to listen... and appreciate my perspective.

the perspectives that we offer, reveal (to ourselves, more than anything else) our "vision" ... is it fragmented or not? If there are gaps where we have to make "leaps of faith" ... we are not whole.

otherwise, (without the "standard" of the WMMs) it is just another forum that discusses our personal Belief Systems.


Core - or personal wisdom, doesn't change ... and it is exactly the same for us all ... it is what we all have in common ... this species' origin and destiny is identical for each of us ... the unique way that we go about accomplishing our destiny doesn't change it ... nor does our belief about our origins, change the fact that we are here now fulfilling our destiny according to a Plan. .... our destiny is not "personal choices" or in some cases even our personal preferences, because we fragmented our consciousness and limited our perspective ... to the perspectives of the Human Instrument which is only one component of the Entity ... which is not a Wholeness Perspective. In a state of wholeness- we each have access to ALL that IS ... and it "evolves" ... but our core wisdom ... our innate understanding of our true identity can only be accessed when we have restored our personal wholeness - believe it or not.

Wholeness for the individual, begins when they trigger the transformation ... and triggering is nothing more than putting your "seed visions" into the ground - you have to water them, nourish them, dig around them so the water can soak in and reach their roots ... they have to be pruned, and the flowers fertilized before you can expect them to produce eatable fruit - you can just scatter seeds and expect "Nature" to do the rest you have to work with nature to get the results your vision promises .... and I know of no other teaching that offers the opportunity to do that with proven results that guarantee success - and offer you the tools to accelerate the process... believing it can be done, and doing it are not the same...

I can tell you from my own experience that when you trigger the transformation, it doesn't automatically put us together ... what it amounts to is similar to a "key", that lets you open a door so you can see the state of your consciousness -which are fragmented. You see all the pieces, but without the instructions, you won't be able to identify them or put the back together . The WMMs are the "instructions" ... they allow you to identify the components of the HI and to put them back into their original configuration .

SO ... when you have assembled all these pieces ... does that mean you know how to use the Wholeness Perspective? (snicker)

do you see where this is going?

you can read the manual a million times, and you can believe that you know how to restore wholeness ... but none of that will give you the experience of being whole, until you experience them. You get a bike in the box, you assemble it, but it doesn't mean you know how to remain balanced or use the breaks, or change gears ... that all comes with experience... before the bike is "motorized" or as the WMMs put it, the Entity activates its Source Codes. Without the experience no Entity would just assume that acceleration that this power allows, will automatically bring it to its destination - you have to determine where you want this power to take you ... if you are stuck in the loop (we call infinity) you will be able to go around in circles, faster, but you may just miss the "exit" from this loop, to the spiral, the TZ offers...





we live in an environment where wall have been erected ... if you believe that when you are whole (and all the components are acting as one consciousness) that it removes the walls ... again, I can tell you from experience, it doesn't (or I wouldn't still be here) ... it only gives you the ability to remove them ... but if you haven't got the slightest idea how to use these components - the walls are not going to budge, just because you a wholeness perspective and the ability to see the wall and identify its purpose- your vision doesn't remove it ... but it does keep you from slamming into it.

So basically what we are doing here ... right now, is preparing ourselves to remove walls ... before the power is turned on. The tricky part of this phase of our development, is the fact that without a "wholeness perspective" - you can't even SEE the walls .... you can only watch as others, who don't believe that your "vision" is any better than theirs ... crash and burn when they slam into them (if you can see them) - even after you told them it was there . Those of us who are aware of the walls, don't have the ability to remove them as an individual (without the power) unless we work collectively ... which means, that the people you are working with can SEE the walls too...

Most of the people participating in the discussions in the WMF ... have read the instructions ... but very few of them have used them to restore their "sight" ... There is nothing that those who have a Wholeness Perspective, can do to convince them that the walls exist - they have to be able to see them for themselves ... or they will continue to believe that something else is preventing them from progressing, and if you are standing there in front of the wall (trying to warn them about it) it is only natural that they would believe that you somehow caused them to crash, because they can't see the wall.


what most of the issues in the forum amount to ... is people discussing the materials, without any experience or vision - telling those who have removed the limitations of their vision ... what they "imagine" the "problem" is. Most of the time, they want to blame the person who has restored their vision for blocking their path ... when the person WITH vision is simply trying to warn them about the wall, and waiting for some others (with vision) to come along and so they can remove it together... the individual with a self-limited vision can't see the wall, and is not going to help remove something they can't see ... so to suggest that they turn around (find another path) is an act of compassion ... because if they continue down this path, they are going to crash into that wall


the power hasn't even been turned on yet ... but if the Entity hasn't learned the basics from his "manual" labors (OJT), what can we expect when the power is turned on, and the Entity's consciousness is still fragmented ? If they can't see the walls, having power, only means we will crash into them that much harder ... without them budging an inch.

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


Last edited by starduster on Wed May 25, 2011 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:03 pm 
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While I certainly acknowledge the thought that went into your post ... it has done little but confirm what I was trying to say in the first place. Can you see that?

Let me explain ...

Quote:
IMO, your reply to my perspectives of "on topic" is the perfect example of you comparing what YOU believe, to what you belive -I believe ... which in itself, is not "discussing the WMMs" -it is discussing our BSs


This is exactly the point I was trying to make about our fundamental differences. You seem to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that there is some other basis for any discussion than individual perceptions. My premise was and is that all discussion here is based on an individual understanding of the WMM. This understanding is belief based. Is there some other basis for discussion outside of our own opinions and "beliefs about" that doesn't "assume" an "I know more than you" position? If you elevate your understanding to a position above that of others (by calling your understanding something other than a belief about what something is or means), is this not the basis of all hierarchies? How can your interpretation of the meaning of anything be discussed outside the framework of stating it as your personal belief when by definition you or anyone cannot define meaning for anyone else?

This doesn't mean of course that you "shouldn't" since there is no law that this cannot be done, only that it is not possible according to the very materials that we all hold in such high regard. An attempt to define "truth" for someone else by claiming that our KNOWING applies to anyone else or that it is somehow a (more) complete expression of Universal Truth goes against everything the WMM stands for. It is this contradiction that I believe you are not seeing which is why I do not "resonate" with your overall interpretations of the WMM. In my opinion it reinforces hierarchical thinking rather than transforms it.

Does this make me "right". Of course not. I fully appreciate that you believe that you know what the WMM are all about and this is the basis for the "tone" in many of your posts. This tone gives many people ... including me ... a basis for discussing ideas with you and in this discussion the opportunity to clarify our own beliefs against an "antagonist" who holds an opposing fundamental view of the purpose and meaning of the WMM.
Quote:

otherwise, (without the "standard" of the WMMs) it is just another forum that discusses our personal Belief Systems.


Again, I don't see the WMM as a "standard" to be met ... and this is especially true when it involves someone else's interpretation of this "standard". This belief to me is the basis for hierarchical structures and I simply do not share it. Since every individual interpretation of the WMM is part of a personal belief system ... that is all we have to discuss. The alternative is a belief (often hidden) that our own interpretation is somehow "superior" and this usually results in attempts at "correction".

Quote:
Wholeness for the individual, begins when they trigger the transformation ... and triggering is nothing more than putting your "seed visions" into the ground - you have to water them, nourish them, dig around them so the water can soak in and reach their roots ... they have to be pruned, and the flowers fertilized before you can expect them to produce eatable fruit - you can just scatter seeds and expect "Nature" to do the rest you have to work with nature to get the results your vision promises .... and I know of no other teaching that offers the opportunity to do that with proven results that guarantee success - and offer you the tools to accelerate the process... believing it can be done, and doing it are not the same...


I can see that you are of the "doing gets you to heaven" belief system and everything in the WMM appears to be seen through the lens of "what do I and others need to do". This doing also appears to include "setting others straight". Of course this is part of your own individuality and uniqueness however it is not the only fundamental perception of WMM. There is also the "becoming" lens which is based on perception and the "doings" that come from these perceptions are a side effect rather than a primary cause.

It's interesting that this fundamental perception of the value of "doing" was the basis for the Christian reformation with both the Catholic church and the Protestant church using different methods to maintain control (Catholic through control of intercessions in the giving of "grace" which was their "key to heaven" and Protestant through the setting of "doings" that could get you to heaven). Both methods involved an outside authority to "sell" you a ticket. More about this is in the "tone of equality" thread I started.

Quote:
SO ... when you have assembled all these pieces ... does that mean you know how to use the Wholeness Perspective? (snicker)


This too goes directly to our different beliefs and viewpoints. It seems that your "version" is about "using" the wholeness perspective ... or at least your understanding of it ... to empower yourself and others. Mine is more about recognizing the wholeness perspective and "using" the images of the Universal Entity to see how I am doing. If the walls you are talking about still exist, then it is a reflection of me (in my "version") ... not a definition of the "truth" or the "reality" of the wall itself.

These are fundamental differences in the perception and understanding of the WMM and interestingly enough they are dealt with extensively in the WMM materials themselves ... including the parts about saviourship. While I certainly acknowledge the "work and effort" you have put into what the WMM appear to say to you, it appears to me that your more linear interpretation has resulted in the reversal of the actual message in a manner similar to what has happened in many religions.

Back to the point of this thread though, it is this fundamental difference in each of our "understanding" of the WMM that is the basis for discussion. Without these differences, we would have little to discuss and no reason to dance.

So my position on this topic remains that differences in opinions, beliefs, and expression in forum threads are welcome and that only the poster themselves can truly know whether or not what they post is connected.

Phoenix


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:59 pm 
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There are many belief systems that use an "oppositional" concept in their mythology or symbology as a catalyst for "change". In the Castaneda material for example the concept of the "petty tyrant" http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=587 is used (ironic that this quote is from the Cassiopaea material <laughing>). Gurdjieff is familiar with it and it's uses ... particularly as it involves death ... as is the Christian world, and many others.

In the WMM material the metaphor that is used is the Animus. All of these are fundamental parts of each respective belief system.

In my perception, your chosen "role" in this forum is to "speak" as the petty tyrant/animus/bringer of "death" and to express these energies and "tones" in your interactions with others. This has tremendous value ... at least to me ... and is truly a catalyst for many insights and "connections" that may not otherwise have happened. I also recognize that this may not be your own perception however this does not change how I perceive the energies you "use" in your posts ... especially in interactions with those who fall outside your "boundaries".

I know that my meaning here could easily be misunderstood so I will also say that I truly enjoy our interactions and find them particularly valuable. They are a "springboard" for ideas that otherwise may not see the light of day (or at least the light of a computer screen). It would be difficult to find someone who does what you do as well as you do it and I for one am grateful for your many interactions on this forum no matter how you choose to express them, or perhaps more accurately ... because of how you choose to express them.

You have been and are consistent, relentless, determined, and tireless in the pursuit of a set of beliefs over many years. There are not many who can say the same regardless of the energies they may be expressing and I particularly appreciate these qualities regardless of what (or who) they may be attached to.

Phoenix


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Quote:
The Energetic Heart: Its Purpose in Human Destiny, References 2 Animus— The Animus, as depicted in the WingMakers Materials, are a synthetic extraterrestrial race that desire to become soul carriers. They lack the biology and sensorial system to house the subtle frequencies of a soul. They desire to engineer their race’s future genetics with the help of human genetics. Because of their superior mental capacity, they have become aligned to the economic powers on earth—as advisors and technology enablers.


Quote:
my perception, your chosen "role" in this forum is to "speak" as the petty tyrant/animus/bringer of "death" and to express these energies and "tones" in your interactions with others.


Based on the Reference definition given for Animus by James, starduster nor anyone aligned with the Lyricus/Wingmakers are animus.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Hi Darlene, and thanks for joining in this thread.

As you are aware, the Animus are a metaphor and are not "real" and do not represent a threat to earth. I was using the comparison metaphorically and in the context of this thread, this quote from James is closer to the context I was using.

Quote:
From Project Camelot interview:
When I speak of those who are lost in the prison without knowing it, I am not referring only to the downtrodden – those starving in refugee camps, those with insurmountable health dilemmas or those in abusive relationships (to name a few). No, I am referring to virtually all of humanity incarnated on Earth and those who have moved on to the astral or mental planes and yet remain in the prison. If you are unrealized of Self as the Sovereign Integral, you are somewhere within the prison, and though it is obvious, it must be said – this includes the prison guards and warden.

Now, the robotic force you refer to (the Animus in the WingMakers mythology) is a symbolic representation of the dark force. They are not real, in the sense that they represent a threat to humanity now or in the future.

Those who have lifted their consciousness and deepened their perceptions to the point where they can sense the Sovereign Integral and experience it – no matter how fleetingly – they are the ones who must express this new state in truthfulness and directness. It is the time of the Nunti-Sunya, which is the messenger of stillness or emptiness. This is the ancient, encoded term for the End of Imprisonment. The “emptiness” is the quantum presence or state in which the Sovereign Integral exists.

As I mentioned in a previous answer, Nibiru is no longer a threat to Earth. Our threat is the Human Mind System and its self-perpetuating nature.


I personally do not believe Starduster is "aligned" with the WMM and I also believe that her interpretations of the WMM have reversed its essential meaning. This however is not the topic under discussion in this thread. Does this belief that SD's posts are not aligned automatically make me right? Does it naturally follow that I should suggest she leave the forum because she is wasting our time and trying to lead us down an "incorrect" path. No of course not. I do not wish this role nor would I presume to take it on under the "guise" of valor. I am more interested in interacting with it as part of a larger process of understanding.

I used my belief as an example since it was the interaction between Tolsap and Starduster which initiated this thread in the first place. The reason I posted what I did is to highlight that a single view of what is or is not "connected" to the WMM is not IMO sufficient reason to subtly attack a poster when only they know the connection between what they post and the WMM. The "I'm doing them a favour" justification that has been used to justify the words also doesn't hold water IMO.

If you go back and read the thread that led to this one, the "oppositional stance" and the rush to judgement that was part of this is very clear. As you know, this is not new behaviour as you have been aware of SD' interactions for as long as I have.

These "energies" are very real and easily perceivable. They are also more aligned in my view with the "negative" part of the hierarchy and its connection with the Animus than they are with WMM. They (again IMO) are not connected with the heart virtues. While they are not always "pleasant", they are also a part of all of us and in interacting with these energies I have learned much. I meant it when I said that I value these interactions as much as I meant it when I made the comparison with the Petty Tyrant/Animus/Bringer of death "role" (again used metaphorically).

I realize as I said in the original post that these words are easy to misunderstand and that they can be seen in many ways. I stand by them however as I meant them in the context of both this thread and my knowledge of the many interactions I have both observed and been part of.

In the context of this thread, regardless of any truth in my perceptions, I believe that all perceptions and "connections" related to the WMM can be welcomed here and that part of the meaning and value of this forum is the insights that can be gained from any type of interaction ... including the type of "antagonistic" postings that were evident in the thread that led to this one and any reply to these as well.

To recap, I believe all of this is appropriate discussion in this thread about what is "on topic" as it is not directed at SD in any personal sense (as I don't know her personally) but only a description of my perception of her words and how seriously new (or old) posters may choose to take her "stance".

Thank you too for providing the chance to clarify my meaning since I'm fairly certain that if you misunderstood what I was saying then others will have as well.

Phoenix


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:55 pm 
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The difference in our perspective of the WMMs is evident in this statement

Quote:
This too goes directly to our different beliefs and viewpoints. It seems that your "version" is about "using" the wholeness perspective ... or at least your understanding of it ... to empower yourself and others. Mine is more about recognizing the wholeness perspective and "using" the images of the Universal Entity to see how I am doing. If the walls you are talking about still exist, then it is a reflection of me (in my "version") ... not a definition of the "truth" or the "reality" of the wall itself.


"Mine is more about recognizing the wholeness perspective" bingo

Mine is all about experiencing a wholeness perspective :D

I share my experiences, not my BS ... and I share my perspective from the wholeness of the Entity ... which naturally would be a different perspective, than that of individuals who have not restored their wholeness and unlimited the Entity - allowing it to express its Individuated Consciousness authentically - whether others recognize it or not ... some do :wink:


don't compare your perspectives to MINE - compare them to the WMMs :idea:



"You have been and are consistent, relentless, determined, and tireless in the pursuit of a set of beliefs over many years"

"set of beliefs" ? Is that what you perceive the WMMs to be? Isn't this ignoring the fact that they define themselves as a "sensory data stream" where one can integrate with "new intelligence" being transmitted from the TZ ? It isn't a "set of beliefs" when you experience it :lol:


as for my perspective, I hardly ever fail to include a quote in my post that reveal if they are aligned to the WMMs or not, and I invite anyone to share their perspectives of that quote, and especially appreciate when they reveal to me, a perspective that will bring me more into alignment with the Plan of FS ... and enhance and expand my consciousness. But most people ignore the quotes

Phoenix, it seems you haven't changed a bit ... still more interested in the messengers than the message (snicker) it is a dead give away of your "consistent, relentless, determined, and tireless pursuit" of ego games - hundreds of you march in and out of the forum every year ...

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Hey SD,

I think that you may have forgotten the title and purpose of this thread which is "what should be considered "on topic" in various threads and whether any individual perspective of what somebody posts should determine the relevancy of a post. My clear position on this is no.

We have already established that we have widely different views and perspectives of the WMM. We have also established that you are quite comfortable in your judgements of others as you have shown in your reply to me here .. unless the BS that you are referring to your own?

You see ... this is the problem. Your language is ambiguous (somewhat ironic from someone who values clarity and "definition" don't you think?). If you are referring to BS from yourself, then it is not judgemental and disrespectful of someone else. If you are referring to BS coming from someone else or (horror of horrors) me <laughing>, then it is both judgemental and disrespectful and contradicts so much of what you yourself try to portray that you "don't do".

Now I personally don't mind whether you show respect to me or not and quite frankly it would surprise me if you did, however it is different when you are replying to someone who hasn't interacted with you as much as I have. By your set of "values", if I think so little of your perspective does it then follow that I should relentlessly suggest that you leave the forum because what you are posting is (for example) "meaningless drivel? Is it really appropriate in a public forum dedicated to subject as meaningful as WMM to rush to judgement and attack the posters that "you believe" are not "connected" or following an "agenda" other than your own?

You also talk a lot about "not making things personal". How does this connect with some of your comments about me while I was "gone", such as ...

Quote:
oh please, Watcher has no interest in the WMMs other than to compare them with his own BS... and has no mastery of his emotions, wearing a nic-name like a chip on his shoulders daring others to push that button so he has an excuse to go OFF... WAU is not Wm... it is most likely Phoenix and his gang of worshipers...but then again he never committed to the WMMs either...which leaves me to believe it is Darlene and John and their "study group" in their attempt to assist us into becoming a place where we can marinate our emotions in the smiling hearts, waters...instead of the shark pool it has become.


Phoenix is a big boy...in a very little pond...his self importance is only increased by the ass-kissers that obviously surround him. If he is as wise as he thinks he is, he should consider re-entry under another name...so people like you don't give him a false sense of security.

Are these not sort of "personal" and are they appropriate by your own definitions of what should and shouldn't be considered "appropriate" here.

Did you think I didn't notice <laughing> ... or was it that you just didn't care as long as you were the one "doing" the personal attacks.

There is a word for these kind of dual standards ... and it is hypocricy. Does this fit in with the heart virtues as you understand them? Are comments like these ... and so many others that are endemic in this forum ... simply a sign of your valour ... or even dare I say it ... compassion (you are only helping them "for their own good")?

I'm not sure that you will understand this point as it has been beyond your ability to understand for many years in similar threads where you resort to your favorite cliches for justification, however the point remains that you can certainly make things very difficult for those who post outside the boundaries of your understanding or "tolerance" ... particularly if they don't understand that your aggressive nature is simply a case of "thoughtlessly" doing what comes naturally for you. Not everyone is skilled at not taking personal attacks personally.

So for the sake of everyone's understanding of your position on what is to appropriate in a thread and who should "decide" this, could you tell us what virtues your words in this thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2100 were trying to express. When you talk about valour, do you have the courage to discuss and "judge" your own actions and tone?

I have moderated several forums on a range of topics and the arrogance you have shown and the personal attacks that you have engaged in over the years and in this specific instance would be grounds for banning you, or at least giving you a serious warning with banning following a repeated "offence", in a moderated forum that enforced a "no personal attack" rule.

So my point (and "request") is, to please refrain from the hypocrisy of setting standards or "suggestions for behaviour" for others that you yourself have no intention of abiding by ... or perhaps at the very least you could adjust your sights to target your own words and actions. Now that ... in my eyes ... would be true valour.

Phoenix


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:48 pm 
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sorry to see, that you consider my discernment ( understanding the message) as "judgment" but I am fairly used to that ... and that you take what I have discerned personally ... I would have said the same thing to anyone who expresses their self with such a limited perspective ... it should be a wake up call, for you, as to how transparent your agenda is here ...

as for "on topic" ... there is only one Topic in the WMF ... and that is the WMMs :lol:

I have also monitored a forum ... and mentored the members as well, and you must live in a box, because I haven't even gotten personal with you nor have I been rude, I have expressed compassion (new intelligence) genuine appreciation, for your shared experience , forgiveness of your IGNORE-ance of why you are here and humility (empowerment) by KNOWING what I am talking about ... I do understand your state of consciousness, having been there done that, and with valor, stand up the the Power your BS has over you ...

if you failed to recognize the HVs, maybe it is because you believe, that they are something that they are not ... but if you check out their authentic definitions in the WMMs you will discern for yourself, how aligned my practice of them are :wink:


PS, I did not fail to notice you emotions ... wow ... not a good sign (snicker) - playing the victim now ... how sad, and totally predictable

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:32 pm 
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Calling judgement "discernment" is rather funny and implies that what you think you know is more valid than what is real. This is exactly the arrogance I was talking about ... but you wouldn't be who you are without it.

As far as there being only one topic in this forum ... I don't think I need to make any further comments.

As far as taking things personally ... well ... all I can say is "Starduster ... you are hurting my feelings so badly that all I want to do is cry". Would you please have mercy on my thin skin?

As far as the rest of what you are trying to say you are "not doing" ... I think the record of this thread and many others speaks for itself. I doubt that any further comments on my part could make it any clearer.

And finally as far as reading the definitions of the heart virtues ... maybe you could quote them all in this thread along with a few comments on each ... just in case I missed them or don't understand what the heck they really mean <laughing>.

OK ... on to more interesting things and topics. We can dance some more in some other threads.

Phoenix


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:47 pm 
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dear Phoenix ... I am not responsible for how you either react or respond to my posts ... that is your responsibility

if your emotions are tied to your reactions, it is a sure indication to everyone who is Aware of the HMS and how it operates, that you are still supporting the programs Anu designed to conceal your true identity ... and telling you that, is an act of compassion

I seriously doubt it would "hurt your feelings" if it wasn't true - playing the victim role is so unbecoming of Sovereign Integral ... I seriously doubt that they do it once their wholeness is restored, I don't

I am not going to do your homework FOR you Phoenix, you have the same access to the definitions of the HVs as I do ... they are in THREE papers, Art of the Genuine, Living from the Heart, and the WWH guide and a simple search in the archives will reveal my comments ... and how my perspective of the HVs has been enhanced over the years... gods know, I have posted them almost a hundred time in the past year alone (snicker)

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:38 am 
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To make a deliberate claim that one is magnanimously endowed with skills to define and classify another person’s true purpose, intent or where their level of awareness, knowledge and wisdom may reside is synonymous with claiming to be omniscient, or at the very least to claim discovery of a highly advanced crystal ball. We need to reflect on why we do this and what we can do about it.

As we continue to develop, there can be times when we get a bit of a wobble up. As more and more power is absorbed it can take a bit of practice and skill to prevent crashing into walls. Much like attempting to drive a formula one race vehicle, at its true capacity, the first time we get in.

During these times of integration and development it is easy for all of us, and we have all experienced it, to entangle this power into our actions without full calibration. And there is never only one time that this will happen, for each level so to speak, brings with it more potency to deal with. It is easy, therefore, to believe we have become synonymous with First Source and therefore we are omniscient - (this is not meant to be confused here with genuinely experiencing and reflecting the tone of equality). So how do we calibrate this power, this knowing?

Do we isolate ourselves in silence and reflection? Or do we go head first into our environments believing that because we have this new potency we must surely be able to use it? My answer is both, for choosing only one answer would surely be selecting an extreme.

In these times of transition it would take an inconceivable amount of courage to risk exposing oneself publically knowing that ridicule and belligerence may follow. I personally commend and honour, both Starduster and Phoenix, for their gallant attempts in bringing this communication to the fore and their dedication toward developing and untangling its confusion.

The struggle represented here is a valuable illustration, as it can be paralleled by each and every one of us on a daily basis: whether it be our children fighting over who is guilty of spilling the milk, to the debates witnessed in our political arenas.

So what is the magic that our friends are endeavouring to lead us to? If we look closely we can see there is a gem contained within the biplicity of the conversations. And as complex as these courageous expressions are, if we look ever closer we will see the pulse of the duality of the physical and the universal consciousness in each individual’s expression. We will see the oscillation of the pulse - inwardly and outwardly - inwardly and outwardly.

It will serve us well to not only recognize each individual’s biplicity, but observe how it changes; imperceptibly at times, and at other times, glaringly obvious. We will see extremes, where one facet within the individual is dominating the other, and we will see blends and merges, where there is a greater balance between the individual and its Source Intelligence.

Vigilant honour and respect of the knowledge and potency that we develop must be used with wisdom; and if we fail to do so, it will not take long before that potency issues forth with disastrous results.

Many are watching, brave warriors, and not because they are without courage; on the contrary, it is because they respect the strength of their comrades and know that their skills are better suited in this arena; to enable a noble demonstration of a cataclysmic event.

Let us all soldier on, constantly reminding ourselves of the purpose behind our valor.


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:40 am 
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We understand that for an organization to outreach globally they generally have a headquarters. This organization facilitates subsets of itself and then strategically places them around the globe for optimal effect. These subsets are created in direct alignment with the principals and ideals of the headquarters and managed accordingly. Would it be so inconceivable to imagine that the LTO, in all of its supreme intelligence, could have multitudinous approaches to presenting their wisdom?

It is from this correlation that maybe the time has come to move past language and interpretation as an ownership of a definition, that realistically at the end of the day, cannot be conclusively interpreted and defined. When the WMM clearly expresses from within itself that definition, as opposed to understanding and development, is not its true motive. So much is being lost from our inability to release confinement in this area and by continually avoiding synchronization because of differences. Much like asking for a place to have a wee in Japan and being promptly taken to an electronics store. (For those not familiar with the colloquialism of my culture: needing to “wee” or “pee” is needing to go the toilet.)

To take the global organization analogy a step further and compress it, is it possible to conceive that within each of us resides an individual LTO headquarters. That is, it is not outside and separate from us, meaning we can only progress so far and then wait for a power source to emerge and jump-start our batteries again. Individual journeys would have no reason then, to pause, believing this was the end of the road so far. The switches would in fact be within us, within our grasp, and not placed at some distant point in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:04 am 
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Quote:
Webster's 1913 Dictionary
Bi`plic´i`ty n. 1. The state of being twice folded; reduplication.


It will serve us well to not only recognize each individual’s biplicity,

The sentence would read like this with the meaning of the biplicity instead of the word.

It will serve us well not only recognize each individual "state of being twice folded or reduplication."

_________________
"The Heart is the Temple of Wisdom." John Berges, The Weather Composer, ©2013, WingMakers, LLC
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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:25 am 
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Darlene, your astuteness is invaluable. Thank for your assistance.


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:07 am 
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Very interesting topic!

Reading the posts I felt clearly two types of energies:
1) Oneness
2) Separation

Firstly I was judging the separation energies and I was trying to reply/post them when I remember that,in so doing, I will enter in this separation game!.

Second, I perceived that WMM is becoming a NEW belief system. The "true/good" and "untrue/bad" material. A dogmatic system. With some guardians of "purity" of WMM.

Light, Love,Life and Joy

Neoovo

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Everything is in constant transition


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 Post subject: Re: ON TOPIC
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:26 am 
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the WMMs have always been a "religion" ... because the authentic meaning of religion is to "re-link" with ones source :D

The materials themselves reveal that the WMMs WILL, in fact, become the "religion" of the 21st Century

please adjust your mind's association with this authentic understanding of that word :D


I appreciate that you admit it when you are making judgments ... but you don't need to "take sides" (polarize) this isn't a popularity contest, nor is it a Love and Light forum, if being honest "hurts" it doesn't make it any less honest ... does it?

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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