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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:24 am 
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The project is part of the new project by James, and I can not judge its importance as you words have since he is directing it.

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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:46 am 
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dberges wrote:
The project is part of the new project by James, and I can not judge its importance as you words have since he is directing it.



Energetic Heart:
Quote:
For those of you who want to express other aspects of your innermost
spiritual work, I encourage you to do so, especially if it assists you in
developing this heart intelligence connection and equivalent expression. The
single most important thing we can do is to practice the heart’s intelligence
in our everyday, moment-to-moment expressions. When this is done, you
are truly aligned to this mission of helping the planetary shift


Quote:
The
[...]single most important thing we can do is to practice the heart’s intelligence
in our everyday, moment-to-moment expressions
.


There is nothing that is more important than that. Whatever project James is doing right now is propably extremely important but certainly less important than the practice of the Heart Virtues in our everyday life.


However, all of what I wrote was meant to relate to Nathan`s ban and our expressions towards him. I didn`t intend to discuss and compare importance of any new project. Unfortunately, this is the only thing you were willing to relate to in your short answer.

You judged certain events as distractions. I suggested you that these events qualify for most important area of the the Six Heart Virtues practice - our everyday life and even smallest details therein and they are not distractions.

The 'certain events' you judged as distractions, that are unrelated to WMM`s - are also Nathan`s contributions to this forum.

This statement is completely not true. He expressed his own, controversial to some, insights about WMM`s in an "out of the box" way.

Quote:
It is also important to understand that everything I bring forward for an individual’s consideration should be treated as a framework, not a prescriptive technique that should be followed rigidly. Individuals need to take responsibility for establishing their own exploratory techniques, methods of expansion, and new behaviors of disentangling from the HMS. Quantum Pause is a framework, not a specific system.



If you think that Nathan`s posts didn`t relate to the WMM`s - then your definition of what relates and what doesn`t to the WMM`s is extremely narrowed.


Again, please, note that the WMM`s are extremely personal and subtle experiences. Thus it is only natural that interpretations and ways of expressing them may vary to a great degree.

To ban someone for having a different interpretation is pure injustice.

I appreciate your intentions to defend this forum from injustice.

However, please notice how your expression of Valor, lacked Compassion and Understanding that would accompany it.

Your post about Nathan`s contributions :
Quote:
Intelligent Behaviors coming from the heart are the foundation of this work and I do not have "hierarchical power." What I do have are the six heart virtues working in my life and like James I needed to stand up the Lyricus/WM materials by using Valor. What was being done to the Lyricus/WM materials by Nathan was inappropriate. Do not blame "Hierarchical power" for your choice. I personally do not have any such powers.


Side note - that you don`t have any Hierarchical power is very impropable, given your authority. You are well known within the community.

In the child beating scenario described in the"Living from the Heart" paper, James says his father`s action was an expression of Valor because there was no accompying judgement... because Compassion and Understanding were present in his father.

Valor defends our Oneness, Truthfullness and Equality.

However, Valor, can very easily turn into defense of the given person/group`s beliefs/opinions, authority, standard patterns of behavior and hundred other things that may have nothing to do with Oneness, Equality and Truthfulness. This is usually the case, when Valor stands alone, without its virtuous companions.

What we expressed towards Nathan is not Valor. It is our sense of righteousness, coming from the mind.


What we did to Nathan is an injustice, an expression of polarity and separation. We need to revert the ban and turn from our personal opinions to the expression of Unity.

Please, consider that in honesty and authenticy.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:01 pm 
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try living in the NOW Urahah ... and quit

Image

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:33 pm 
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Urahah, thank you for showing valor in your defence of Nathan. I do not claim to understand why he was banned although I defend Admins right to do so if he was disrespectful to the forum or its etiquette. However recently I've come across Nathan's readings of the WM poetry and for me there is a deep understanding and appreciation of these works which would seem to me to be a good enough reason alone for his imput to be appreciated here.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:57 pm 
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the fact that his posts remain in the archives, for any and all (including Nathan) to access, demonstrates forgiveness and compassion on the part of the Webmaster IMO. If Nathan had expressed the same and not abused his membership by writing an (non-WM related) e-book of his philosophies in the forum, (after being asked repeatedly not to and warned of the consequences)he would still be here. He used this forum to promote his own personal BS ... and many were distracted by his rhetoric and attracted to his heavily plagiarized "materials" but that is no excuse for him to disrespect this forums created purpose and the people who joined to discuss the WMMs ... his only interest (as stated previously) in the WMMs was the poetry and the AA book - he not only ignored the rest but stated repeatedly that he had no intention of transforming... that he felt like seed and all his "followers" that he was either born transformed, or had already made the transformation - if that were so, then he certainly didn't need to discuss the WMMs ... so you tell us all why you believe he was here and why he ignored the many requests and warnings (for years) until he finally got banned ...

see you got your white steed out and all your shinning armor on ziearmo ... just the thought of a damsel in distress brings you out (snicker)

you guys need to get over your Savior complexes ... or better yet, SAVE YOUR SELF :lol:

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:30 pm 
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starduster wrote:
try living in the NOW Urahah ... and quit

Image


I appreciate your suggestion to try to live in the now.

I try to the best of my ability to do so. I have observed (inspired by Jiddu Krishnamurti`s teaching) however, that one is unable to truly be in the present - as long as there is thought. I think the only ones who are capable of truly being in the fullness of NOW - are those who are free from HMS.

It is as Jiddu Krishnamurti said:
Quote:
Thought is born of experience and knowledge, which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever limited and so we live in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution. When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts, he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep, radical mutation in the mind.


I do not claim that I have managed to end thought in myself. I`m not even close to achieving it. Realizing the vastness and subtlety of the HMS is truly a humbling experience.

I realize the magnitude of what it means to truly experience the Sovereign Integral conciousness and how little of it I have attained so far. When the Sovereign Integral conciousness announces and furthers its presence in the individual is not a subject to the mind and it`s predictions, however I realize how little of it I have attained so far. It is humbling as well.


--------------------------------------
starduster wrote:
try living in the NOW Urahah ... and quit


Your suggestion to "try living in the NOW", in this context, means that what I wrote was an effect of not being in the now and is of little or no value.

Words : "...and quit" sadden me a little because it seems that all of the effort I put into what I wrote to you, was ignored. Maybe you didn`t even read most of it. Maybe you did... but in any case, you certainly did not regard it since you tell me that it is something that I should quit. One might add, that all it took you to relate to everything I wrote - was one, short sentence.

In summary, what I wrote is of no value since it didn`t support you at all, it seems.

From my perspective, its hard to discern whether the cause of this is lays in the sender (me), the adressee (you- Starduster), somewhere in between or is shared by us with particular degrees.

Any honest feedback would benefit my understanding and skills of wielding Heart Virtues.

In any case, I treat it as a learning experience, that will hopefully enable me to rise the quality and potency of my contributions. I appreciate your presence here, Starduster.


PS. I`m not sure what do you mean by the picture you attached.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:56 pm 
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starduster wrote:
the fact that his posts remain in the archives, for any and all (including Nathan) to access, demonstrates forgiveness and compassion on the part of the Webmaster IMO. If Nathan had expressed the same and not abused his membership by writing an (non-WM related) e-book of his philosophies in the forum, (after being asked repeatedly not to and warned of the consequences)he would still be here. He used this forum to promote his own personal BS ... and many were distracted by his rhetoric and attracted to his heavily plagiarized "materials" but that is no excuse for him to disrespect this forums created purpose and the people who joined to discuss the WMMs ... his only interest (as stated previously) in the WMMs was the poetry and the AA book - he not only ignored the rest but stated repeatedly that he had no intention of transforming... that he felt like seed and all his "followers" that he was either born transformed, or had already made the transformation - if that were so, then he certainly didn't need to discuss the WMMs ... so you tell us all why you believe he was here and why he ignored the many requests and warnings (for years) until he finally got banned ...

see you got your white steed out and all your shinning armor on ziearmo ... just the thought of a damsel in distress brings you out (snicker)

you guys need to get over your Savior complexes ... or better yet, SAVE YOUR SELF :lol:


"you guys need to get over your Savior complexes ... or better yet, SAVE YOUR SELF :lol:"

Ziearmo expressed an opinion that he/she found some value in Nathan`s posts. Apparently, this is ALL it takes for you to judge him as someone who has Savior complexes, Starduster.

In addition, you are implying that you are transformed, free of HMS, yet again.

You are 'standing' in the heavens of your transformation, looking at us from the 'above' and yelling at us : " You guys need to get over your inferiority complexes or better yet, get to where I AM :lol:"

Quote:
If one says, “I am self-realized and therefore enlightened,” are they enlightened of the GSSC? Or, are they an experiencer of the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness beyond the HMS? If it is the latter, you will not find them on book tours, giving lectures, establishing schools or ashrams, speaking in the lecture circuits, creating a spiritual path, healing for money, profiteering from their experience, or claiming they have special powers that others lack.


I think that those who are truly free of the HMS are not participating on any internet forum. Written words are very limiting and impotent when used in discussion, as tools to build Unity. Why would they waste time on the internet forum ?

Not to mention, that they would certainly not add to the polarity of disagreement.

Quote:
Spiritual activism is not about solving the problems of the world by energizing social causes and adding to the polarity between those who care and those who don’t, or those who believe the solution is “x” and those who believe the solution is “y”. This is a subtle distinction because the will to do good in the world is often accompanied by separation. For example, the social cause of climate change has “camps” of those who are supporting the Earth (activists, tree-huggers, vegans, ecologists, etc.) and those who are not (global corporations, greedy business people, military industrial complex, governments, etc.)


Abstract but potent movements, like globalization, can carve out a city and overturn its commerce and community, essentially copy-pasting the culture of globalization in a place that once held its own spirit and sense of community. Those who are opposed to globalization, and observe their communities looking more and more like cookie-cutter McCommunities and Walmartvilles, can become activists against the global machine, but from their fervent opposition, they actually energize the globalization momentum that they seek to stop.


This is related to Nathan`s case. Many of our efforts, in this case, only add to polarity.

Quote:
The different camps of “us” and “them” have energetic signatures as well as physical places, people, and events, and this energetic signature grows as the two sides of polarity shine the intensity of their disagreement (energy) at one another. You can observe this in any political system (e.g., liberals and conservatives) and see how the energies are constructed, and make unity and oneness an abstraction instead of a reality.


Our forum does not escape this description. There are those who believe Nathan`s ban is justice and those who believe that it is injustice.

Two sides of polarity shine the intensity of their disagreement at one another.
You can observe this on the Wingmakers forum and see how the energies are constructed, and make unity and oneness an abstraction instead of a reality.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:27 pm 
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the fact is, Urahah, what you are doing is exactaly what Nathan was doing ... JUDGING - and distracting from the intent of this forum .... total disrespect for its creator, webmaster and member.

We joined this forum to discuss the WMMs ... NOT THE MEMBERS ... why, oh why, is that so difficult for some to comprehend?

I have not passed one judgment here, simply stated the facts that you want to IGNORE and refuse to discuss - IT WAS HIS CHOICE TO BE BANNED ! ... what you choose to believe is not my responsibility ... but what you do in this forum is ... each of our responsibilities ... you are trying very hard to disrupt the forum ... as if you were the next puppet in line now that Shay is no longer here doing that ... have you ever noticed how there is always someone biTcHing and moaning about some PERSON here -----consistantly

do you think that is a coincidence? :wink:

tag, you're IT ... its a louzy role but someone has to play it

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:50 pm 
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starduster wrote:
the fact is, Urahah, what you are doing is exactaly what Nathan was doing ... JUDGING - and distracting from the intent of this forum .... total disrespect for its creator, webmaster and member.

We joined this forum to discuss the WMMs ... NOT THE MEMBERS ... why, oh why, is that so difficult for some to comprehend?

I have not passed one judgment here, simply stated the facts that you want to IGNORE and refuse to discuss - IT WAS HIS CHOICE TO BE BANNED ! ... what you choose to believe is not my responsibility ... but what you do in this forum is ... each of our responsibilities ... you are trying very hard to disrupt the forum ... as if you were the next puppet in line now that Shay is no longer here doing that ... have you ever noticed how there is always someone biTcHing and moaning about some PERSON here -----consistantly

do you think that is a coincidence? :wink:

tag, you're IT ... its a louzy role but someone has to play it


... why ? Starduster, why ? :/

Please, consider the following. I know its long but trust me, I do respect your time. I believe our relationship will benefit if you will read this and I strongly desire that we will not separate ourselves through polarity anymore. That we will eventually come together.

I will provide excerpts from my messages to you.


Quote:
-I truly hope that this message will support you. This was my intent in writing this post.

-If any of what I wrote above appears judgemental or without empathy or as something that in any way - it is because of the nature of written language and my lack of skills in neutralising its vices.

-I truly appreciate your contributions to this forum and your commitment that they require and I have respect towards the understanding of the WMM`s you posses.


I have expressed that I appreciate you and respect you. All of what I wrote to you was with an intetion to support you. It was genuine, I swear.

You have not said anything that would imply that you appreciate or respect anything about me. Some of your replies, contain the opposites of these two, that show that you think lowly of me. If you look for an example - look just a few posts above, where you respond to my 1-page-long efforts with a one-liner that aims to discredit all of it. Another example is the post quoted at the top of this reply.

In E.Co-Create, page 7, I have written nearly 3-page long posts, that were aimed to show you your behaviors as they are. You haven`t even responded to them.

I`m not the only one who observed your behaviors and there were others who were trying to do the same.

Excerpts from your quoted post :
- "as if you were the next puppet in line now that Shay is no longer here doing that" - you are calling Shayalana a puppet. This, of course, is not a judgement, right ? Please, Starduster :/

- "why, oh why, is that so difficult for some to comprehend?" - This is a rhetoric question that one uses to indirectly mark his superior intelligence. The obvious answer to this question is - "because they are ..." (insert adjective, e.g "stupid"). Of course, this isn`t a judgement either ?

-"tag, you're IT ... its a louzy role but someone has to play it" I appreciate your skills in using sarcasm. Further comments are not needed, I think.

These are your behaviors.

For you, the criteria of whether someone understands the WMM`s or not, whether one is judging or expressing Heart Virtues (you are making these distinctions in such a one-sided, black & white manner - usually, you depict exclusively the negative) - is whether someone agrees with you or not. Anyone who is willing to look through your recent posts about/to Seed, Renovatio, Shayalana and others - can observe this.

Your very definition of judgement, given your use of that word - has to be something like that : "Whatever I say is of Virtue, whoever disagrees - is judging".

In addition, you basicly ignored the content of the post you replied to. Instead, you chose an attempt to discredit me, with accusations that are not even explained.


-------------------------------

The essence of what I was trying to communicate in regard to Nathan`s case is this :

Quote:
I believe we should revert the ban and I believe we need apply to humility to verify our own opinions and position...we need to appreciate how commited to these works Nathan is... understand what he is trying to convey and why... as well as forgive any shortcomings that he may have commited while doing so... and express all of it to Nathan.

Then explain our own opinions and understanding to him - with respect and without judgement or expectation - and ask for his understanding of our position.


In other words - Heart Virtues expression instead of using rigid structures of mind, like guidelines - to deliver sentence to one of us. Sentence that is not justified even in the realm of mind - because it is based on subjective, as our the disagreements between members show -interpretations.


-----------------------------


You sum up all of my efforts with these words
Quote:
the fact is, Urahah, what you are doing is exactaly what Nathan was doing ... JUDGING - and distracting from the intent of this forum .... total disrespect for its creator, webmaster and member.


In other words, you try to completely discredit me and describe my actions and intentions as something awful.

There are others, who were treated by you in the same way. Seed, is but one example (she left already, mainly because she had the same opinion about Nathan`s ban as me, Alex, Seed, Karen and a few others).

-----------------------------

In your post - you state that you are pure, for you say :
Quote:
I have not passed one judgment here
.

Humility has long left you if you believe this and even more so if you believe that it is a virtous action to proclaim something like that. In your posts you show complete, absolute lack of humility.

Have you ever looked at the results of your actions at this forum ? If you are pure, if all you ever expressed are pure Heart Virtues, untouched by any judgement, then why so many fail to feel your love, compassion and support ?



---------------------------------

Quote:
We joined this forum to discuss the WMMs ... NOT THE MEMBERS ... why, oh why, is that so difficult for some to comprehend?


You claim that WMM`s are unrelated to WMs forum members. The core of WMM`s teachings- is the expression of the Heart Virtues, the behavioral intelligence - discussing our behaviors is one of the most important topics there. Actually, noone is talking about forum members (if you make a distinction between them and behaviors) - we are talking about our behaviors, actions - and a decision that was so important - that it caused a few members to leave.

Basicly, this claim is virtually as far away from truth as possible.

Please consider the underlined words. Apparently, for you, it isn`t important whether someone leaves or stays. People come and go, why care about it, right ? Its hard to find a more solid proof of how compassionless, uncaring and judgemental your current expression can be, Starduster.

Just look at your comments about the members leaving our forum. You actually believe it is normal, that there is nothing wrong with that. People come and go, why care about that, right ? Is this unconditional Oneness in your eyes, Starduster ? Love without condition ? Expressed in every moment of one`s life to everyone and everywhere ?

Its not like they wanted to leave. They left because they felt that the Spirit of WMM`s - Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality - was violated here. This was a protest. You don`t have time to care about it, given how deeply you believe in and care about the rightousness of your actions and opinions and its promotion.

Quote:
have you ever noticed how there is always someone biTcHing and moaning about some PERSON here -----consistantly
|

You call all of these efforts of the people who sincerely try to support and defend what the WMM`s are truly about - Oneness, Equality and Truthfulness - you call this "biTcHing and moaning" ? "about some PERSON here " - like the 'PERSON' is not worthy of attention and our care ? How can you express Heart Virtues to that person if you believe that think that our expression of Heart Virtues towards her/him is biTcHing and moaning ?

I realize I am being very unpleasant here but please, believe me, its only for transparency`s sake. I hope you will feel my intentions.

----------------------------------------------------

Starduster, there is a great difference between what you talk about and what you express. In your self-image, you established yourself as an authority who somehow posseses the right to adjudicate about other member`s sincerity, understanding, progress and even range of allowed behaviors/opinions. The sentence you use on those who do 'pass the test' in your verdict - is discrimination and accusation. You seem to believe that this actually isn`t judgemental and of the mind, you seem to believe that this is right.

You talk about what WMM`s are, you talk about transformation, you talk about Wholeness, you talk about First Source, you talk about Wholeness Navigator, you talk about Unity, you talk about Sovereign Integral - but you express something entirely different. You are more interested in being right in relation to other`s opinions and depicting your own glory than expressing Heart Virtues to everyone, without ambition, condition or criteria.

You miss the point of these teachings - which is to build Unity. This is done by the expression of love frequency that is divine, without condition. Not by talking about Unconditional Love. Not through evaluation of other`s progress. Not through the implementation and use of rigid structures of the mind, like guidelines or rules, especially not when there is accompying sense of rightousness - which you showed with clearness. Not by comparing yourself to others. Not by forcing your own interpreations on others. Not by discriminating anyone who falls into certain degree of disagreement with your opinions. It is done by the expression of the divine love, without condition, at all times to everyone, everywhere - and this is the core of WMM`s teachings. This is the reason they exist - to enable us to do exactly this.

Of course I do not relate what is described above to all of your contributions. Only to certain ones, especially the recent ones.

Please, consider all of this, only caring about how it helps us to dissolve the influence the HMS, especially ego - have on us, only caring about how it helps us to build Oneness and express It along with Truthfulness and Equality.


------------------------------------------------------


Starduster, I truly regret that our relationship looks like that. I regret even more that I had to write a post like that. I assure you that I do not take any satisfaction in anything I wrote to you. I didn`t feel judgement towards you when I wrote this. Behind the words, in the spirit, meaning of what I conveyed to you - there is no judgement, there was only an intent of support. I realize that it may seem otherwise - but if so, it is truly because of the limitation of language, and in some parts - for transparency`s sake. I only wanted to shed light on your behaviors and help you see them as they are. There is no sense of rightousness. It is of no importance who does this. You or whoever or whatever else - it only matters how it helps us to build and sustain Unity.

Believe me, I swear - I care about you. I am with you no matter what you express and how. I feel you. I understand your behaviors. There is no judgement about them, there is no evaluation of the value of anything you ever wrote on this forum - I only share what I believe can help us move closer to unconditional Oneness, Truthfulness and Equality, in the expression of every moment - to the best of my ability. This was, sincerely, my only motive behind what I wrote to you.

You wouldn`t imagine how I began to feel about you, when I wrote this post. Starduster, I love you. I appreciate you. I share your experience. I`m with you, forever. You can always count on it, no matter what. Please, take that to heart.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:39 am 
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As plainly and as simply, as I am able, let's establish a First Point here ... THIS TOPIC IS IN NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED Y TO THE WINGMAKER MATERIALS ... AND NEITHER IS THIS DISCUSSION THAT YOU ARE HAVING ABOUT ME

I didn't join the forum to be analyzed by some armchair shrink, nor do I come here to hear your opinions about my behavior and how you perceive it ... hello - we came here to discuss the WMMs ... something you have completely abandoned with you focus now being fixed on me ... why is that when you join the forum to discuss the WMM? Do you honestly believe that I come in here to listen to you complain about us ?

Have I ever gone off topic in my posts except to reply to these kinds of self projections ? Do you expect me to try and defend myself against you delusions? If I don't live up to your expectations of a Sovereign Integral - well I guess you expect me to change to please you :lol: If you have a problem with me, I reckon that is YOUR problem ... and you should fix it...because no one else can, and I am not about to change being ME ... when you can't even live up to your own expectations ... like it or lump it bucko - it is, what should be (believe it or not).

_________________
"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:44 am 
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starduster wrote:
As plainly and as simply, as I am able, let's establish a First Point here ... THIS TOPIC IS IN NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED Y TO THE WINGMAKER MATERIALS ... AND NEITHER IS THIS DISCUSSION THAT YOU ARE HAVING ABOUT ME

I didn't join the forum to be analyzed by some armchair shrink, nor do I come here to hear your opinions about my behavior and how you perceive it ... hello - we came here to discuss the WMMs ... something you have completely abandoned with you focus now being fixed on me ... why is that when you join the forum to discuss the WMM? Do you honestly believe that I come in here to listen to you complain about us ?

Have I ever gone off topic in my posts except to reply to these kinds of self projections ? Do you expect me to try and defend myself against you delusions? If I don't live up to your expectations of a Sovereign Integral - well I guess you expect me to change to please you :lol: If you have a problem with me, I reckon that is YOUR problem ... and you should fix it...because no one else can, and I am not about to change being ME ... when you can't even live up to your own expectations ... like it or lump it bucko - it is, what should be (believe it or not).


This topic is one that has one of the highest degrees of relevancy to WMM`s. It is concerned about expression of Oneness on our forum.

Let me quote my previous message, since you ignored it alltogether :

Quote:
The core of WMM`s teachings- is the expression of the Heart Virtues, the behavioral intelligence - discussing our behaviors is one of the most important topics there. Actually, noone is talking about forum members (if you make a distinction between them and behaviors) - we are talking about our behaviors, actions - and a decision that was so important - that it caused a few members to leave


Every publication since the website Eventtemples.com was established is stressing the importance of behavioral authenticy. There are 3 e-papers that are almost exclusively about our behaviors and ways to refine them.

This topic is a discussion about our behaviors towards each other and how they refer to Oneness and you claim that this topic is not related to WMM`s in any way. Is it possible to make a statement that is further away from truth ?

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I didn't join the forum to be analyzed by some armchair shrink


Thank you for comparing me to an armchair shrink. I guess you have your own ways of being respectful and non-judgemental.

If it was a mere analisis, it would be truly heartless and it wasn`t, at all. This was not so much of an analisis as it was an attempt to create a mirror to let you see the true nature of your behavior`s and their results. Your understanding of the WMM`s is only on an intelectual level. Your emotions remain in the substrate of your ego-personality insecurities, judgements and defensive mechanisms.

Starduster, my real message didn`t even reach you. It`s like you were surrounded by a cocoon, that filters all information through your ego-personality`s defensive mechanisms. In effect, what I send to you and what you receive is something entirely different.

Starduster, its quite possible that if James himself would speak to you, you would propably instruct him to not go off-topic and read more WMM`s, propably adding that one day, he may be able to reach the same levels of transformation as you, if he will do so - given that you didn`t know his identity. Though, even if you knew, its not unlikely that you would 'rationalize' something that would discredit him anyways.


I want to stress that there is no judgement of your behaviors on my side and that Heart Virtues are present in me to support you. Though, there is no point in expressing them through written language, since your filters do not receive them, as your reply shows.

Right now there is separation between us. My intention is to transform it, to build Unity. Please, consider that before you reply.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:27 pm 
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your "problem" appears to be - that you take EVERYTHING personally ... for instance, the statement "I didn't join the WMF to be analized bla bla bla -" had nothing to do with you :lol: it was a statement of fact, that YOU took personally - isn't that so

you taint everything you read, with your limited perspective of it ... we all do ... trust that the many will be able to perceive more than the one, and give it a rest, the word ONENESS can't be accessed on the web search engine ... what you need to focus on, is WHOLENESS ... get your act together, man.

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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:48 am 
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starduster wrote:
your "problem" appears to be - that you take EVERYTHING personally ... for instance, the statement "I didn't join the WMF to be analized bla bla bla -" had nothing to do with you :lol: it was a statement of fact, that YOU took personally - isn't that so

you taint everything you read, with your limited perspective of it ... we all do ... trust that the many will be able to perceive more than the one, and give it a rest, the word ONENESS can't be accessed on the web search engine ... what you need to focus on, is WHOLENESS ... get your act together, man.


It wasn`t "I didn`t join the WMF to be analized bla bla bla".

It was "I didn't join the forum to be analyzed by some armchair shrink", which is as directly linked to my post above your reply which contains this quote, as possible... and now, you try to say that it had nothing to do with me ?


This is a very clear example of the work that your defensive mechanims do. Do you not see how your whole perception and expression is twisted by them ? It somehow happened that you exchanged words "armchair shrink" with "bla bla bla", please answer yourself why..

I didn`t take anything personally. I merely share my humble insights about your behaviors in relation to a member of this forum who got banned as well as towards Seed, Ziaermo, Shayalana, me and few others - these behaviors create separation and division rather than Oneness.

Note that I relate directly to facts, and only facts by quoting your replies and trying to bring your attention to their real nature and the lack of Heart Virtues in them.

In your posts you didn`t relate to almost any facts, instead you presented severe accusations that are not explained in any way.

No matter what I say and how I say it - you try to hit me as if you were attacked. As I said before - you are more interested in depicting the glory of your transformation, rather than expressing the qualities that such experience would bestow on you. You can`t accept or admit to yourself anything that contradicts that motive and it most propably isn`t intentional.

Again, believe me, I don`t feel any judgement towards you. I don`t judge you. I understand you and I respect you. I regret that our relationship looks like that.

I will repeat myself - at present, there "is" separation between us, Starduster. My intention is to build Unity. Please, consider that.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:33 pm 
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yeah yeah yeah, and you just can't let it go ... or get it through the HMS, that the faults you find in others are YOUR OWN ... which you reveal in your expressions.

The fact that you can NOT get back on track, speaks volumes :roll:

I'd be happy to discuss the issues you are having with me in PM ... but this clap trap doesn't belong in the forum ... why can't you respect that ?

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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:14 am 
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Door is open for his return ....when he is ready.....question is ....is he willing to be a part of the One.....and fit in......Wing Maker or Animus....a choice that sooner or later All of us on this path must grapple with .........and then work very hard.....to clear it.... the Path ....of the debris.....of many years....centuries of garbage .....put there by Anu.....who IS being moved along..


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Urahara wrote:
starduster wrote:
your "problem" appears to be - that you take EVERYTHING personally ... for instance, the statement "I didn't join the WMF to be analized bla bla bla -" had nothing to do with you :lol: it was a statement of fact, that YOU took personally - isn't that so

you taint everything you read, with your limited perspective of it ... we all do ... trust that the many will be able to perceive more than the one, and give it a rest, the word ONENESS can't be accessed on the web search engine ... what you need to focus on, is WHOLENESS ... get your act together, man.


It wasn`t "I didn`t join the WMF to be analized bla bla bla".

It was "I didn't join the forum to be analyzed by some armchair shrink", which is as directly linked to my post above your reply which contains this quote, as possible... and now, you try to say that it had nothing to do with me ?


This is a very clear example of the work that your defensive mechanims do. Do you not see how your whole perception and expression is twisted by them ? It somehow happened that you exchanged words "armchair shrink" with "bla bla bla", please answer yourself why..

I didn`t take anything personally. I merely share my humble insights about your behaviors in relation to a member of this forum who got banned as well as towards Seed, Ziaermo, Shayalana, me and few others - these behaviors create separation and division rather than Oneness.

Note that I relate directly to facts, and only facts by quoting your replies and trying to bring your attention to their real nature and the lack of Heart Virtues in them.

In your posts you didn`t relate to almost any facts, instead you presented severe accusations that are not explained in any way.

No matter what I say and how I say it - you try to hit me as if you were attacked. As I said before - you are more interested in depicting the glory of your transformation, rather than expressing the qualities that such experience would bestow on you. You can`t accept or admit to yourself anything that contradicts that motive and it most propably isn`t intentional.

Again, believe me, I don`t feel any judgement towards you. I don`t judge you. I understand you and I respect you. I regret that our relationship looks like that.

I will repeat myself - at present, there "is" separation between us, Starduster. My intention is to build Unity. Please, consider that.


Urahara starduster is only interested in her own opinion and that she is always right and everyone else is wrong and that she has command of the forum. Let her. It's about doing and practicing what is gleaned from these materials, not all this head stuff she does with little to no high frequency feelings and that is because she doesn't know what they are because she shut the door on the Energetic Heart as THE GUIDE long long ago. She is here to keep people off balance and in conflict and away from the Heart. Let her. Much is being done by others who would rather do, than listen to her Heartless bla bla bla... .It's why most don't come here any more because they are doing with little to no talk about it. Besides there is a participatory new venue,(besides the Event Temples, GICP and others) with James' latest "story" that people can engage in with each other and that starduster has no control over nor ever will nor will anyone have to suffer through the interference of markz' meaningless overblown ego based inanities anymore... much to the joy of many serious students of these works. Yeeeee Hawwwww!!!!!!! :wink: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Figures with Mercury going retrograde today that .the mouthpiece of the Animus remnant would return to cause trouble.....had been really hoping that you would have used your time out to heal yourself rather then just pick up from where you were when you were given your vacation Shay.................that you consider yourself a serious student of this Work is funny......a student learns ....something a "know it all " like yourself is not open to.......because if you were you would let go of this vendetta you have and learn to work together as part of the team....instead of trying to impose your will on others......Unity is at hand and either you get with it,,,,,,or next time ....your vacation from the forum may be permanent.


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:55 pm 
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Bless you Shay, there is nothing that prevents anyone from using these materials to accelerate the transformation ... or respecting the intent of this forum.


Teacher: Live in this world with all your passion and strength. See the God-fragment in this world, even if it is only a diminished beacon or tired light. See it! Nurture it!

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:53 am 
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great news Urahara, Nathan has created his own forum where he and his followers (Seed, Karen and RUssell - and Alex ) can drink in the koolaide :D
now the other antiwingmakers - Shay, Egnigma, Golda, Kitrabo, 15, ect ect (who want to fragment and taint the official WMMs) have two moderated forums to visit when they find the guidelines or the company in here to confining and perhaps leave us to discuss the material as intended :wink:

congrads to Nat, banning has given him the motivation to be self creative (wonder who's paying for the broadband now :lol: )

http://lyricus.proboards.com/index.cgi#world

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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:10 pm 
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I hope Nathan has gotten permission to use any WingMakers' materials as they are copyrighted, when he uses them.

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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:40 pm 
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well, I didn't see any links to the website where he stole them ... I guess he wants everyone to believe he is the great Lyricus who has spoken :lol:

actually it is kinda good to see him quoting the materials at last ... too bad he wouldn't do that here :mrgreen:

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:41 pm 
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starduster wrote:
great news Urahara, Nathan has created his own forum where he and his followers (Seed, Karen and RUssell - and Alex ) can drink in the koolaide :D
now the other antiwingmakers - Shay, Egnigma, Golda, Kitrabo, 15, ect ect (who want to fragment and taint the official WMMs) have two moderated forums to visit when they find the guidelines or the company in here to confining and perhaps leave us to discuss the material as intended :wink:

congrads to Nat, banning has given him the motivation to be self creative (wonder who's paying for the broadband now :lol: )

http://lyricus.proboards.com/index.cgi#world


They are not antiwingmakers. How can you say that ?


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:54 pm 
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my perspective ... is that their resistance to the awareness that the WMMs provide is demonstrated in every post that they make that has nothing to do with the WMMs in this forum ... of course they are Anti - wingmakers and the compassion (new intelligence) is ignored to purposely distract from the materials ... if they were interested in discussing the materials - NOTHING prevents them from doing that - but obviously, even though that is why they joined this forum, that is not why they are here - it is quite evident what their agenda is - which is to disrupt the kindling effect that discussing the materials offers ... because they don't get it... they do everything they possibly can to keep others from getting it ... promoting their own BS

If you feel more comfortable with them - I encourage you to join them, and let those who want to discuss the materials do so in peace. :D

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"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:18 pm 
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starduster wrote:
my perspective ... is that their resistance to the awareness that the WMMs provide is demonstrated in every post that they make that has nothing to do with the WMMs in this forum ... of course they are Anti - wingmakers and the compassion (new intelligence) is ignored to purposely distract from the materials ... if they were interested in discussing the materials - NOTHING prevents them from doing that - but obviously, even though that is why they joined this forum, that is not why they are here - it is quite evident what their agenda is - which is to disrupt the kindling effect that discussing the materials offers ... because they don't get it... they do everything they possibly can to keep others from getting it ... promoting their own BS

If you feel more comfortable with them - I encourage you to join them, and let those who want to discuss the materials do so in peace. :D


Exactly what makes you think that they resist the awerness that the WMMs provide and that you are able to judge that with such extreme precision and confidence ? So much so, as to call them antiwingmakers ?

I, for example, do not see their posts as a purposeful distraction, though its not out of possibilities range, its not propable - and even if it was true - that woulnd`t make them antiwingmakers, again, how can you say that ? That, at the very best, would mean that they simply lost their way and we should express our compassion to them (not our mental constructs about compassion but the actual emotional frequency and what follows that, one might add).

Again, what makes you think that you are able to tell, with such confidence (you even say its obvious), that their only agenda here is to distract others and thats the only reason why they are here ?

Why did you add '(new intelligence)' next to 'compassion' ? In this context, compassion is an active desire to assist others to align to this new intelligence.

You described them as antiwingmakers, told what their evil agenda was and encoureged yet another member to leave this forum, thats all you did in your post. Is this an expression of compassion ?


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 Post subject: Re: About the ban of Nathan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:11 pm 
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I spent (as did some others) almost five years with Nat on a daily basis... I think after that time ... and with what he documented into the Archives here, that I can say with full confidence neither he nor seed (3 years) had any interest in the transformation, and were only here to promote their own BS.

yes, this absolutely is an opportunity to express compassion ... and take this opportunity to make a conscious choice ... are you here to transform or BS?
what ever you decided ... please follow through ... don't stay here if you don't want to talk about any thing but Nathan and Me OK? do yourself and the WMF a favor ... :D

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