WingMakers Forum

Talks 2
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Author:  Nathan [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Talks 2

The Sovereign Integral is suppressed out of ignorance. Fear, doubt, insecurity, desire, despair, false authority, worldly power, the status quo -- these elements preserve the suppression matrix from the individual grid. We don't take this very serious because of the status quo. It has drained our resistance to a minimum, so that we would only play with the idea but don't go much further.

Author:  starduster [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

We don't take this very serious because of the status quo... we would only play with the idea but don't go much further.

speak for yourself Nathan...I take it very seriously and do whatever I can to rectify the problem

All beliefs have energy systems that act like birthing rooms for the manifestation of the belief. Within these energy systems are currents that direct your life experience. You are aware of these currents either consciously or subconsciously, and you allow them to carry you into the realm of experience that best exemplifies your true belief system.


Within the boundaries of the survival-based energy system are transition zones that permit a re-casting of one's belief system in accordance to cosmological, multidimensional energy systems. Think of these transition zones as isolated portals of energy that intersect the dominant energy system of the human species


Think of these transition zones as portals that lead one out of the prevailing energy system of survival and conformity of the mind-body into a new energy system that is of the mind-soul. The mind-soul energy system is characterized by creative energy directed to realizing that the Wholeness Navigator is the personality that endures and is therefore the creator of enduring beliefs and life experience. When this realization is achieved by accessing one of these transition zones or portals, the entity can begin to restructure their belief system independent of time and the predominant notion of survival.

This new energy system can be brought into your personal realm. When you believe, "I am a fragment of First Source imbued with ITS capabilities," you are engaging this energy system inherent within the feeling of connectedness. You are pulling into your reality a sense of connection to your Source and all of the attributes therein.

Author:  Nathan [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

The basic idea for a change is: There must be another way. This may lead to A Course In Miracles from the Hierarchy, or to the Enlightenment of the French Revolution, and the idea: Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité. And by the way, this was when Fichte invented the systematic dialectics, that Hegel worked out. About half a century later, Kierkegaard observed in A Literary Review: The age of revolution is essentially passionate, for which reason it essentially possesses form, culture, idealism, decorum, immediacy, revelation, and amorality. But the form of this revolution we will speak and converse about here, is the Sovereign Integral, that will lead to the Grand Portal.

Author:  mike777 [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

Author:  starduster [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

ja, there is a "proven" way already outlined in the WMMs... that seems to be ignored...the latest interview, suggests that the Quantum Breath is THE way... that, one person at a time, we can free ourselves from the HMS and become FS.

The application of Quantum Pause may seem an unlikely way to de-activate the Suppression Framework of the Sovereign Integral and more effectively handle the transition stage we are in, but I would encourage you to try it for three weeks and see what results you achieve. Only through your own experience can you judge the merit of Quantum Pause. If, after three weeks of daily practice, you experience a new clarity and connection to your origin point, then you will be motivated to continue, and in this decision you have established your new First Point upon which unconditional oneness, equality and truthfulness can stand.

Answer 6 from James PC Interview

Author:  Nathan [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

Just as the repressions in the old age required their bloody revolutions, the suppression of the Sovereign Integral asks for an inward revolution into the new era of transparency and expansion.

Author:  Shayalana [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

Excellent thread Nathan and know you have a lot of support despite the Grinch who likes to steal more than Christmas. There's no fooling around here in being transparent, it means to be so utterly honest with yourself first and leave no stone unturned. There may be a lot of forgiveness required by those who deny that their behavior reflects if or what work they have been doing on themselves. The Great Work is what we do within ourselves, to get to the otherside of the HMS to the state we were before,( but perhaps, wiser in not being so naive),being tricked into Anu's human instrument model. This is expansive because it goes so beyond the very limited perimeters set down by the HMS unwhole and disconnected from a true source of power. Interesting how so many philosophers in the past held fragments to be put together to reveal the true source of power being suppressed by the HMS. :wink:

Author:  starduster [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

I do not see the releasing of the Sovereign Integral as a revolution, but as a transformation of one individual at a time...transitioning from the Human Mind System to the Sovereign Integral... it is an on going act of self-recognition, self-realization, self-evaluation, self-forgiveness...and self-creation of one's OWN local universe. It is one's own heart that is energized by the connection they have with the virtues of FS flowing into is not depend upon others ... and when we are all fulfilling our own potential as individuals then we will BE experiencing First Source.

It (the sovereign integral) is the portal through which the individual can experience First Source in unconditional oneness, equality and truthfulness.

As individuals manifest the Sovereign Integral's consciousness, FS is enhanced and doing this, you become members of that "team" (the collective that IS FS) ... because you are contributing to Wholeness and unity... nothing rejected, no one is excluded once they are expressing their true identity through the Human Instrument and are aligned and resonating in the tone of equality.

This means, to me, that I can experience BEing First Source, with or without you, your recognition, approval or consent...This state of consciousness is available to everyone, and not dependant upon anyone but your relationship with your SELF (the Sovereign Integral) released from the HMS...while still in the Human Instrument.

Nothing prevents any one of us from making this transformation. NOW

Author:  Nathan [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

The Sovereign Integral is an extremely subtle state of perception and expression that is simply sustainable through patience. You can descry the new continent with your human eyes perhaps as one small dot on the horizon line, but to the Sovereign Integral it is their native land and the long horizon here is the full three hundred and sixty degrees of the circle.

Author:  starduster [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

I realize my answers to this set of questions may cause a sense of being lost in some people – perhaps not at first, but over the days and weeks ahead, you might come to this place in your process. I want to assure you that this is normal. This feeling of being lost is a consequence of letting go of the things that bind you to your Human Mind System, and anything that cuts these threads that bind you, that asserts that your extensive, multi-lifetime beliefs have been based on programs of deception, is a very hard thing to accept without a sense of loss or a feeling of being lost.

Answer 18 from James:PCI

Author:  zoarastera [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

The only thing that binds is Memory. Not all memory is Conscious memory,some is sub-conscious-and unconscious. Not all memory is unhappy or sorrowful,some has pleasure-like the smell of Pie that is cooling after being taken out of the stove. Their is a disease that causes people to Loss their Sense of touch,Taste,even Memory. Without the five senses you would be a Husk. You couldnt take care of yourself,or even know who your own relatives were. You would be disabled-impaired. Why on Gods GreenEarth would anyone want to invoke or project such a thing on their audiance. It would be like having a conversation with someone that is in acoma, or has amnesia. This isnt the way to acquiring more extra sensory such as having the extra sensory 7th sense. You dont give up your senses to acquire more sense-because that doesnt Make Sense. You dont give up having a Emotion sensory self,so you dont have any Emotions-you might as well be a android. If I was a Alien from somewhere out their,and I could get people to listen to me-like the internet, I would get Humans to stop wanting to be Human. If I was a Android,I would get Humans to stop having Emotions.

Author:  starduster [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

Zoar, it is not being suggested that we cut off our emotions...but that we "master" them...inappropriate emotions have been tied to us by the HMS via "trigger words"... such as "conspiracy theory", is tied to the word "kook" or "doom peddler"...which causes an emotional response...once someone has been called a CTist, then our immediate (automatic) response is to reject what they is not a correct response, but it is the programed response the education system/Genetic mind has deemed acceptable...and to respond any other way is considered abnormal...

there are hundreds of these "trigger words" that the mind associates with emotional responses that do not express our "True" feelings, but only those that are acceptable. Most of them are programed into our awareness by frequencies coming from the TV...when our peer "hero" say something like "talk to the hand" we are trained how to respond. These are the emotions it is suggested we "master" investigating what words, trigger which emotions...and re program our emotional response to reflect our "true identity" and not some automatic response we learned.

While working with the elderly, I can't tell you how many times I was told, that calling someone an SOB was "fight'n words" that many died over... and now, you can call your best friend a MFer and it is, in some cases an expression of endearment and intimacy (go figure). These trigger words have a purpose, and they are used to manipulate a person into a position where their mind, dumps chemicals into our blood stream that cause a physical reaction as well as an emotional response, that renders them "out of control" for up to a half an hour.

Emotions were originally the "language of the heart"... and its intuitive intelligence was expressed via emotions... but now the language has been so altered by the designs of the HMS that our emotions are not coming from the heart at all, they are coming from word associations in the Mind. The Lyricus Discourse #6 explains a technique by which we can clear out these inappropriate "programed responses" and return to emotional responses that reveal the heart's intelligence... Words limit us greatly, but feelings are the antidote to limitations, but only if these feelings/emotions are authentic and genuine.

The person who has Mastered this Higher form of intelligence, filters incoming and out going energy though their heart...and assigns words to these emotions, instead of the other way around...these words express the feelings of an "energetic" heart and are not part of the HMS used to manipulate others. This is also not to say that only SOME emotions are "good" (like words)... they all have a meaning. The "virtues of the Heart" IMO are a whole different sort of "language"... and they come from FSI...into our individual hearts...and can flow to others through us...which I believe demonstrate our preferred identity as being connected to IT...or active Sovereign least this is my own understanding of emotions.

Author:  starduster [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

In order to ensure that the rebellion within the masses of humanity is manageable, the Elite use the entertainment, media, religion, government, and education systems to de-sensitize humanity to the real issues, keeping their attentions on the trivial and unimportant, all the while monitoring their reactions to being monitored.

You can argue that this is paranoia, or you can argue that people are naïve and easily manipulated. If you choose either side you have activated your Polarity System. Congratulations.

The issue is whether you resonate with the construct of the Human Mind System or the Sovereign Integral. If it is the latter, then allow your resonance to guide you, and, in an informal way, release your attention from those elements that reflect or constitute the HMS.
Ans 14 PCI

Author:  Nathan [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

The circle is here around you, we are all one of the circle, having a conversation beyond suppression. In every group there will be an element that wishes to suppress, to contribute a form of conformity the group itself has already survived well: you shouldn't give this much attention. And there is already another voice speaking, that because there are one or two listening, catches our attention so that the silence is waving over the group members actually -- look at that silence. Isn't it beautiful? This is the Remnant Imprint of the Sovereign Integral. It's such a beautiful energy...

Author:  starduster [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

"They discuss the heavens, God, angelic beings, extraterrestrial intelligences, the service orientation of ascended being, ascension process of soul, morality, practical living, alignment to God, life after death, and the complex teacher-student ordering of the universe. It is all designed to instill separation and satisfy the seeker that truth exists on the material plane, thus, they do not have to leave the prison to find it; they simply need to read or listen with their mind". A11PCI

Author:  Nathan [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2


Author:  starduster [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

"Those who have lifted their consciousness and deepened their perceptions to the point where they can sense the Sovereign Integral and experience it – no matter how fleetingly – they are the ones who must express this new state in truthfulness and directness.

It is the time of the Nunti-Sunya, which is the messenger of stillness or emptiness. This is the ancient, encoded term for the End of Imprisonment.

The “emptiness” is the quantum presence or state in which the Sovereign Integral exists." A13PCI


"In the stillness, purposelessness, and emptiness of you, everything exists.
Thus, they search for the beautiful, the harmonious, the spiritual vistas of higher worlds, the descriptions of peace and love, angelic presences, the experience of oneness and beauty, but they do not want to go through the gateway of emptiness to get there because emptiness is death and non-existence of the mind. And the mind is what they have come to believe is them." A25PCI

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ will see a space open up in your life; a sort of emptiness and stillness that lacks human embroidery or definition. This is the place in which you can stand-up and radiate the oneness, equality and truthfulness of the Sovereign Integral. This is the activism that will change the world.

It will not be the organizations, the sects, or the militias that bring change. They cannot stand up to the Elite. Only the Self, the Sovereign Integral, operating in harmony with Earth/Nature can stand-up to the Elite and usher in the era of transparency and expansion. A16PCI

Author:  Russell [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

You knew what I was getting for Christmas didn't
.....because you felt my



Author:  Shayalana [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

Nathan wrote:
The circle is here around you, we are all one of the circle, having a conversation beyond suppression. In every group there will be an element that wishes to suppress, to contribute a form of conformity the group itself has already survived well: you shouldn't give this much attention. And there is already another voice speaking, that because there are one or two listening, catches our attention so that the silence is waving over the group members actually -- look at that silence. Isn't it beautiful? This is the Remnant Imprint of the Sovereign Integral. It's such a beautiful energy...


Author:  Nathan [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

The only thing that is required for an entire room to become still and silent is that you listen to what this voice is saying, this one person just like the others. It is that listening that adds momentum to the one voice of the one circle speaking out. If you will reach for the next thing, you will miss it. What you really reach for is the end and here is only the new beginning. It is a different way of communicating, where you don't have to be so nervous anymore, not so able-bodied at all. We are all equally important, equally unique. And we have all something interesting to say. And it is something really, really interesting, if you just listen, and stand up for your new message.

Author:  Shayalana [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

No disrespect intended, but you use words to describe what cannot be interpreted in thought, feeling and words or pictures or images. The reaching and striving is wonderful within oneself , for it is here we connect to ALL the ONE THAT IS. :D

Author:  seed [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

In our moment to moment expression there is alignment to truth or alignment to dishonesty. We can listen to the the voice we share, or the mind of separation. Our choice is one of alignment and response. In the moment we cannot serve two masters, bend two bows, or mount two horses. Inside the wholeness perspective all things are revealed.

Author:  starduster [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

yes, and whenever we are not discussing the WMMs we fall short of the intention of this forum... there is no way around it...either you are serving the purposed intentions or you are not As seed says, you can not serve the HMS and the SI at the same time....very simple.

Every problem, every issue, every contention, all disharmony stems from this failure on our part to follow the guidelines set out by James for this forum...if we had done as suggested, there would be no HMS here.

Author:  Nathan [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

We have always been told everywhere, by every teacher or educator in the world, do these things. You have to do it this way. This is the best way, the right way, the good way, the only way. And this is how it must be. But this is not how it must be. So then the world improver comes and does nothing -- nothing fundamental, that is. You can't save the world. On the contrary, the messiahs have only cast disaster upon mankind with their Spirit Complex. This is the wrong way. It is always the wrong way. There is no way. Way to what? Every direction you are driven to or drive others, you drive yourself, is the wrong way because you are driven, motivated and this very motivation is put into your System from a modified program. Even when you think you are having it your way, it is an illusion. You don't have to change the world in any way, you only have to change the way YOU look.

Author:  mike777 [ Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Talks 2

"Every direction you are driven to or drive others,
you drive yourself, is the wrong way."


Why wrong?

If it is wrong then there is no need to listen "anti drive instruction" also.
Anti-driver (or anti-anti) is also wrong trying to say what we have to do or not.
Do we have to change the way we look really? For what?

What is your answer?
1) to be
2) not to be
3) I don't know

"The problem" is that mind always works on instructions.
Let it listen to your heart instruction.
Noone knows but heart knows.

I hope it is not so much off-topic and to much distractive...

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