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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:25 pm 
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[quote][i]Message original : CV[/i]
GODalso, may I remark that in WM-terms the entity just is the soul, they don't talk about oversoul. [/quote]

Yes, indeed CV, that's true, they more often mention "soul" than "oversoul", however here is a paragraph where they use "oversoul". It's in Philosophy, Chamber 2 - The shifting models of existence (emphasis mine):

"These men and women were the gateways for humanity to explore new facets of itself. To engage a part of its [b]oversoul[/b] or universal consciousness that was essential at that particular time in its evolutionary cycle. "

I'll add that I find it strange that apparently the "soul" is nowhere to be associated with the body in the WMM - only with the entity". And what I don't quite understand is the relationship HI/entity. I get the impression that the HI and the entity do not exist in the same space-time dimension. Is this a correct interpretation?
Since we (as the entity, not the HI) exist in all dimensions at once, ie. outside space-time, it would seem to make sense that the soul interacts with the body-mind-emotion complex (HI) but remains outside of that "trinity" which is itself firmly and exclusively rooted in 3D.
So, it would be futile to attempt to "locate/anchor" the soul somewhere in the physical body, as I have being trying to do. But isn't it true also of the mind and the emotional body? Even though mind and emotions are associated with the body in the WMM (description of the HI), because of their non-physical nature it would be illogical to try to locate them in the physical body (except perhaps as chakras), yet they are so associated in the WMM in a combination of physical and non-physical elements. That's what I find confusing.
And then, there's the soul/consciousness relationship problem that I am still grappling with.
Ga -


[Edite le 7-7-2005 par GODalso]

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Yes, 'oversoul' has been used as the universal consciousness of mankind itself. Your first question is answered by yourself, the entity isn't caged in space-time. So it isn't to be located no, however one can feel the connection in their heart or above their heads, but I wouldn't say that's the entity, - it's a connection. The mind and emotional body are part of the HI, so you can experience it. (The entity cannot be experienced: you are that.) Sometimes one can clearly feel shocked in the plexus solaris for example. Important about the plexus is to realize it's a force, like longing, so you can really move with it. I don't fully understand your confusions. You can locate the mind with the brain, the emotional body and the astral plains are rooted in the plexus, but the entity has no location except for the dynamics of the Phantom Core linking the two. And your questions about the soul/consciousness relationship, you haven't expressed them. ty

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:55 pm 
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Note: the mullings below were composed before i could read your latest post, CV.

Just thinking aloud ... :)
(taken from the WM glossary)

"[b]Human Instrument
The human instrument consists of three principal components: The [i]biological[/i] (physical body), the [i]emotional[/i], and the [i]mental[/i]. These three distinct [b]tools of perception[/b], in aggregate, represent the vehicle of the individuated spirit as it interacts with the physical dimension of [i]time, space, energy[/i], and [i]matter[/i]. "[/b]

I find it difficult to regard "time" as a [b]physical[/b] dimension. Is it considered so only because it can be measured with instruments? But, as I remarked elsewhere in this 22-page discussion, there is [i]measurable[/i] but artificial chronological time, and a [i]fluctuating[/i], psychological aspect. Also, in channeled material, time continues to be mentioned as existing also in 5D, 6D and above... (albeit different in nature from our 3D time) so it seems that concept is not exclusive to the physical world. I could add that space either is not exclusive to that dimension.

Now we come to:

"[b]Entity
The entity model of consciousness encompasses the individuated spirit sometimes referred to as the Higher Self or Soul. The entity is, in a sense, a fragment of the Universal Spirit Consciousness of First Source. It is composed of a very refined and pure energy vibration that is equal to Source Intelligence (spirit). It is the [u]entity consciousness[/u] that divests itself into human or otherwise physical vehicles in order to collect experiences that evolve and transform its understanding and appreciation of existence."[/b]

There seems to be a two-way flow to consider: while western science looks at nature (including living beings) "from the ground up" (like the direction of the Great Pyramid), the WMM looks at life in a downward direction (like an inverted pyramid, from FS to HI) which, I am beginning to realize, can make it difficult for a conventional scientist (like John) who is not used to dealing with the non-physical to grasp the meaning of spirit and soul, for instance, or even energy. The association "science" and "soul" is a difficult dichotomy to reconcile. Will neo-scientists have to investigate and build a [i]science of the soul[/i]... not from the ground up, but rather [b]from the apex[/b] of the two pyramids, ie. the point where the physical and non-physical meet? That would be a logical starting point, IMO. But to do so, it seems they will need to be willing to first reverse their own "pyramid" (POV) in order to see, with their mind's eye, the "other" pyramid and acknowledge at least the possibility of its existence.

("ie" below is my addition)
"[b]Sovereign Integral
The Sovereign Integral is a [color=Blue]state of consciousness[/color] whereby [b]the entity [/b] and all of its various forms of expression and perception are [color=Maroon]integrated as a conscious wholeness[/color]. This is a state of consciousness that all entities are [u]evolving towards[/u] (ie. evolution/saviorship model), and at some point, each will reach [u]a state of transformation [/u] (ie. transformation/mastership model) that allows the entity and its instruments of experience (the human instrument) to [color=Purple]become an integrated expression that is aligned and in harmony with Source Intelligence[/color][/b]."

My summary:
HI (body-mind-emotions) + transformed Entity (soul) => Sovereign Integral aligned with Source Intelligence

A Sovereign Integral looks to me like the Oversoul, to use a terminology that I am more familiar with ... whereas the entity is an aggregate of the lifetime experiences of hundreds or thousands of interconnected souls. It is the hub of an immense wheel whose spokes are souls and the outside edge the space-time continuum which is almost a timelessness - an eternal NOW.

How do we go from HI to that Sovereign Integral ideal ? Could it be, simply by always living in the HERE and NOW?

... to be continued... Please "butt in"!;)


[Edite le 8-7-2005 par GODalso]

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:18 pm 
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[quote]CV - And your questions about the soul/consciousness relationship, you haven't expressed them. [/quote] Well, that, at least, is simple enough to express ;) : are these [b]two[/b] different concepts or one and the same? And:
what is it that incarnates: the soul or consciousness? What does consciousness (if it is distinct from the soul) relate to ?
-Ga-

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:53 pm 
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GODalso,

I do so appreciate your willingness to enhance yourself, while enhancing (flattering/encouraging) others with your inclusion of the materials...and you abilitiy to stay on topic while you share the experience...is uniquely refreshing

a couple of things... "language" was introduced in by the LTO...in their role as "culture bearers"...they have even introduced such words as Animus into our language long before they presented them to us...(it is already in the dictionary)

time is only found here on earth...and serves a specific function...you will discover in the philos and is defined as the "fourth dimension"... by some. Our souls come from a dimension that emcompasses all "time" and flows through all space...they are redefined as "timelessness" and "vastness"

and the analogy of the pyramid is perfect...the way you see it meeting at the apexs is insight-full...and now imagine the "transformation" which not only allows it to be integrated as the "star of david" (body and soul) but also 3Ded...as in the visuals of a MERKABA...or "form" of the Wholeness navigator, experienced in SI consciousness

[img]http://www.msnusers.com/i4bfv3sgh91o8ivrnj75jepn71/Documents/Wingmakers%2Fwholenessnavigator.jpg[/img]

try not to rush it...but to use it...and it will be digested and become a part of you...(pace yourself as if you were at a roman banquet) there is a lot of "morphing " necessary as we expand (shed my skin) during the transformation...and "event strings" which you attract to give you convincing experiences...or KNOW-ledge...perhaps in your case, you have had the experiences and are just now integrating them (? ) with the materials...and their unique language of light...as you adjust to the frequencies of FS for longer periods of inLIGHTenment.

one more thing...you will find...that once you understand your "role" in the unification of the species...you will not want to "leave"...but contribute your unique individuality as a part of the "clockworks" or piece of the puzzel that will not be complete without YOU...until you fulfill your "mission"

I would define "consciousness" as your level of awareness...of the collective mind of FS...with Christ Consciousness being the point where you "save" your SELF while in the body.

I am thrilled (as the WMs must be too) with your grasp of this "lingo"... it took me years and years of daily study...you came prepared...with an open mind...and by george...I think, you are GROKing it rapidly and living up to your name :D




[Edited on 8-7-2005 by starduster]

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:00 am 
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CV, not to correct you, but to offer my understanding of the "oversoul"... as related to ID, EGO and Super EGO... as I understand it...the ID is the body, the Ego the soul and the superego the SI integrated "state of consciousness... also referred to in the WMMs as the "watcher"

It becomes a little confusing as the materials use different words for the different "levels" of understanding of the same concepts...and as one evolves, the use of these specific words blend into each other...and their complete definitions become revealed...for deeper understanding...this is why the use of the WMM "language" in our discussions is so important.

The language of FS is not only layered but embedded...with frequencies...which can sometimes be revealed by reading it outloud...as suggest in the case of the Lyricus and experienced in the techniques introduced in the Philos...dancing with the music, "getting into" the art and feeling the poetry.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:56 am 
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the "transformation" is physical as well as spiritual...the "tools" of the WMMs trigger the HI's DNA...and allow for the "activation" of the SE's "source codes"...

It is the SE that is awakened to it's INDIVIDULATED CONSCIOUSNESS (mission) by the transformation to the integrated level of SI consciousness...the "soul" has already been accepted as we explore and discover our self(s)...in the worlds withIN and is the first step in the process...when we learn to trust it...we also learn to trust it is in others and that we are connected ... by our DNA and the "secret{spiritual) root" to the core or FS(I) that feeds (IT and us) and reveals ITself.

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by starduster]

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:47 am 
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Dear starduster, (hey, do you ever sleep? :) )I assure you that no flattery was intended. ;) I was just recognizing your greater familiarity with the WMM.

Like Golda surely, I have come to sense and know a lot of the material under discussion through direct experiencing, and I wish to [color=Blue]experience[/color] a lot more. But expressing what I know through language (be it French or English) is often a frustration. I long for a way to express it all at once, as a package, rather than drop by drop through words. But for you, Starduster, and MonDragon, and TravelerDiogenes, Frank, Alex, and quite a few others in this forum, language is obviously not a problem; you all excell at expressing whatever you wish with great fluidity and precision. Especially you, the most prolific member of these forums. Again, no flattery intended; just "the facts, m'am!".

Over the years since my first experience (E1) which, as I said, detached me completely and instantly from organized religion, I have spent very little time (only the first 11 years of my life, and even that, barely) in the evolution/saviorship mode and have been drawn to several compatible spiritual teachings: the Rosicrucians and Eckankar especially, and more recently, channeled material, that have all added important pieces to my spiritual understanding.

What little my synthetic (rather than analytic) mind remembers of these earlier teachings is certainly helping me to recognize in the LTO/WMM a beautifully organized and integrated system that is very much to my liking and of the same breadth and depth as Eckankar by certain aspects. WMM however, is a more comprehensive system than I have ever been exposed to. It is also great material to interpret or re-interpret my three experiences.

The WMM image of the multidimensional wheel with the entity as the hub, is also of great help. I understand that I am(we are) the hub of the wheel, and that I had access to my "other" lifetimes simply by relaxing and letting any of the "spokes" (souls) tell their stories, as in my E3 experience. As the hub-entity existing in no-time/no-space, as well as the "memory" bank for the multiple, interconnected "3D spokes" (souls), I am accumulating a great wealth of insights into the nature and workings of the physical worlds. Likewise, through me and many billions of other entities in the Multiverse, First Source Intelligence can share in these experiences and insights and be truly Present in all of us. The more aware I become to this Presence (in me) and of my multiple souls (that garnered their experiences in the physical worlds - and which I synthesize), the closer I come to being a Sovereign Integral walking the path of mastership through transformation.

(addition)[color=Blue]Of course, when I speak of the spokes and equate them to souls, I actually mean the "imprints" of different HIs who have gathered their experiences in different time-space frames, represented by the rim of the wheel. And that rim is actually a particular time-space circle, or more precisely spiral, that is specific to all the "spokes" of this particular entity. When I, as a timeless entity, access some of these "soul imprints", I see them (relive their experiences) in their "NOWs". That's why my "other life" recalls had a striking immediacy. As for our dreams, which have that same immediacy, I believe that dreamtime is a doorway to our other actual (or potential) soul imprints, those that we have not otherwise intentionally recalled. The reason dreamtime is so important for all of us is that it is our (=HI) connection to our entity ... and therefore to timelessness and spacelessness.
When I think of it, it is incredible all what science "misses" by not recognizing non-physical events! It is not perceiving (and therefore not studying), more than the very tip of an unimaginably large iceberg.[/color]

I still have many other pieces (such as the Remnant Imprint and the Wholeness Navigator) to fit into this increasingly clearer and larger picture. As I study the Philosophy and Discourses more closely, I hope to build a really Big Picture. I was looking for a passion; I think I've now found it in this ongoing Project.

I intend to also approach the music, the paintings and the poetry in the way described in Philo, Chamber 4. I will first let my lazy body learn to dance spontaneously to the [b]music[/b].

Yes, there is an awful lot of material to study and integrate! One has to be pretty well organized, systematic and patient - like a scientist - to go through all that!

_________
"[b]If you were to perceive the origin of your existence, you would undoubtedly see how vast the entity is. If you could pierce through the veils that cover your destiny, you would understand how much vaster you will become. Between these two points of existence -- origin and destiny -- the entity is always the vibrant container of Source Intelligence. It has willingly allowed itself to explore the time-space universes as an outpost of First Source."[/b] (WM Philosophy, Chamber 2)
---
"[b]Because the vibratory rate of the physical universe is decelerated to such an extent that particles solidify into clusters of objects, time decelerates into sequential frames of perception, allowing the entity consciousness to explore multiple worlds simultaneously. This enables one entity to explore hundreds, if not thousands, of worlds in a single frame of time. This creates the perception -- albeit dimly felt by most of you -- that you have lived before and that you will live again. [/b] (Philosophy, Chamber 3)
---
"[b]We understand that the concept of simultaneous experiential learning platforms is a concept that pulls against every three-dimensional fiber in your bodies and minds, but it is the true way in which you were designed. WingMakers have produced not less than one hundred thousand variations of the human instrument -- all structured around the same DNA template and each scattered across the seven physical universes of our multiverse. When you read these words, you are operating in tens, if not hundreds, of simultaneous realities throughout the multiverse, but only the entity is able to perceive these realities.[/b] (Philo, Chamber 3)
-----
[b]IV. The Ascending Spiral to The True Wisdom
The entity's sojourns within the physical realms of the multiverse are vast as measured by time and space. They comprise, in most cases, an aggregate of tens of thousands of years, and each of these years produce an effect on the entity. These messages of time shape them into new forms. And these forms emerge as exemplars of what is to be in the distant future. These are the Sovereign Integrals spoken of in our previous discourses. [/b]
----
[Edite le 8-7-2005 par GODalso]


[Edite le 8-7-2005 par GODalso]

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In this transitional period between the Old and the New Energy, just remember the tools and remember to use them continuously - accepting, letting go, releasing, allowing, living in the Divine moment, and trusting in Self.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:15 am 
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yes Ga, I also found that my background in "religious" diciplines help me, and gave me the opportunity to "walk the walk" for many years...I left "religion" in 2000, not far behind when I moved to Las Vegas to study Kabbalah from disinfranchised Hassidic Rabbis...which is touted NOT to be a religion but a way of life...and it reached back to the "source" with FSI that was given to Adam while still in the Garden of Eden....Rosetarians and Templars as well as Free Masons are a few of the "mystery schools" that sprang forth as bits and pieces of this "sacred/secret" info was leaked to the "secular" world... there are other older "teaching" (Enocian and Noahide...TOTH) that also contain the "secret" teaching as understood by men...but none of them were complete until this 4000 year old secret was released via the internet (at the same time as the WMMs) by Rav Berg.

I found too many "rituals" and Jewish "dogma" in my study of Kabbalah...which fragmented the members...in a hierarchy...not being Jewish and not having their background made it difficult...but also prepared me for the WMMs...which I see as almost identical, without the influence of religious overtones...and is why I say that Jesus also had the WMMs because he taught pure Kabbalistic understandings...that he learned while living amongst the Essene where his parents fled to hide him from the "slaughter of the innocent" (all male children under 3) ... before they returned to their home...where he became a Nazerene (hippy) and was awakened to his special role... It is also said that he traveled with his Uncle, having been kicked out of rabinical school (he was a "know it all") on the ancient caravan routs...from age 12-30...living in India and England and traveling as far as China.

It is also widely believed that he was resurected from the dead by a Kabbalist...and took Mary and his mother to India, where he lived to be over a hundred and raised a large family...outside of the reaches of the Roman Empire...but that is another topic...

The activation of your "soul"with SI awareness...will lead you to the understanding of the different aspects of the Individulated Consciousness...and give you the opportunity to recognize their roles... through pracitical applications in your daily life, while continuing your SE "mission" in this particular (dominant reality) life...one step at a time.;)


PS
with this illness(LD) my body is experiencing...I m up and down during the day and night...I find it gives me to opportunity to correct some Karma in my family...and to concentrate on the WMMs, sharing my perspectives in the forum on a "full time" bases while attending to my failing mother's simple needs...which require little energy and sitting at the computer allows me to "get away"... while still taking advantage of the healing attributes in the WM's music...I can't complain...lol



[Edited on 8-7-2005 by starduster]

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:29 am 
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Ah those abbreviations! They are useful, of course, but sometimes a little too cryptic. I know what SI means (-> a. Sovereign Integral, or b. Source Intelligence)... but [b]SE[/b] ?? I don't have this abbrev. on my list yet. So please clarify, Starduster. Thanks.
-Ga-

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:57 pm 
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Yes, it will certainly be useful to have this list in the New to WMMs section.

But I would add the words in blue below to :
[quote][i]Message original : starduster[/i]
FSI First Source Intelligence (not to be confused with "fluid intel" or "intuitive intel" - [color=Blue]see L.T.O. Discourse 06[/color]) [/quote] ... since it seems that the only place (?)where "intuitive intelligence" is mentioned and detailed is on the Lyricus web site. That would make it easier to find that reference. What do you think?

Also note that [b]SI[/b] could mean [i]Source Intelligence[/i].

Considering the extent of new terminology on both sites, it is really a pity there's no internal search engine on the WM and Lyricus sites. It would make things a lot easier for the newbies especially. I wrote to MH about this some time ago, but did not get a reply.


[Edite le 9-7-2005 par GODalso]

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:06 pm 
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Thanks again, Starduster! I did not know about that UK site. Its search engine works exactly as I had hoped to find on the US site. It gives the category/section where the word or expression is found. That's very useful.

I've added that URL to my list, just for that search engine.

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I still want to answer your questions of last month.

Are these (soul & consciousness) two different concepts or one and the same? And: what is it that incarnates: the soul or consciousness? What does consciousness (if it is distinct from the soul) relate to?

When the soul incarnates, consciousness is caught with the human instrument to realise itself as what we call the Individuated Consciousness. So the soul is an aspect of that and the human instrument is an aspect of it as well. The full realisation of it is again another aspect of it (timelessness of soul), a state of consciousness we call the Sovereign Integral. These three aspects of the IC, namely the entity (soul), the HI and the SI have their Merkabah-counterpart in the three other aspects namely the PC (to talk about later), the RI and the WN (see already existing threads).

Now your question about consciousness itself is not answered in the WMM's for now. It relates to the absolute, a bit like asking why does First Source exist? And as the Universe of Wholeness can be seen as FS's dream, consciousness could be defined as - illusion. The 'transformation' then, could be defined as the emtying of consciousness of consciousness, to make 'room' only for Source Intelligence. Consciousness is a part of the mystery of life, like the other side of love and beauty if one wants.

The mind is the key to release for the transformation to come about, as to raise consciousness, to raise your vibration and let illusions go to see [i]what is[/i], to meet realities until you find yourself in Source Reality. The normal, modern reality-consciousness of mankind is total illusion, gathered in ego-selves - separation. It is emotionally centered. That's why spirituality and the global quickening is so important, otherwise the stream of suffering would soon lead to calamity. - So there's a lot to say about consciousness, it has many different and interesting meanings to explore.

Thank you for the questions, GODalso.

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wow !! interesting & informative thread guys ! :o


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An interesting perspective on the soul by Deepak Chopra from "How To Know God":

" In the ancient Vedas it says that the part of us that doesn't believe in death will never die. This simple definition of the soul is not a bad one. It accurately describes everyones secret belief that death may be real for some but not for us.. Psychologists are impatient with this feeling of personal immortality. They claim that we use it to defend ourselves against the inescapable fact that one day we will die. But what if the opposite is true? What if feeling immortal and beyond death is the most real thing about us?

To prove this point one way or another , we need facts , just as we needed them about God. The soul is as mysterious as God, and we have just a few reliable facts about it. I would offer that the first fact about the soul is that it is not really as personal as people believe. The soul doesn't feel or move; it doesn't travel with you as you go about your life, nor does it endure birth, decay, and death. This is just a way of saying that the soul stands apart from ordinary experience. Since it also has no shape, getting a mental picture of the soul isn't possible.

Instead, the soul is really a junction point between time and the timeless. It faces in both directions. When I experience myself in the world, I am not experiencing my soul, yet, it is somewhere on the periphery. There is no doubt that we sense its presence, however vaguely. But it would be a mistake to think that the soul and the person are the same. My grandfather was an old man with thinning hair, prone to enthusiasm and fierce in his love for us. I have powerful memories of him, yet all his qualities and all my memories have nothing to do with his soul. Those qualities died with him his soul did not. So the soul is like a carrier of the essense, but what is the essence like? If I can't experience my soul as an emotion, if everything I know about myself since birth is separate from my soul, it must not be a material thing.

In other words, the soul begins at the quantum level, which makes sense since the quantum level is our doorway to God. To go through this door isn't something we choose; participation is mandatory. In India the soul has two parts. One is called [i]Jiva[/i], which corresponds to the individual soul making its long journey through many lifetimes until it reaches full realization of God. When a child is taught that being good means your soul will go to heaven, it is Jiva that we are talkiing about. Jiva is involved in action. It is affected by our good and bad acts; it rules our conscience, and all the seeds of karma are planted inside it. The kind of person you turn out to be is rooted in Jiva, and the kind of life you make for yourself will change Jiva day by day.

The second half of the soul called [i]Atman[/i], does not accompany us on any journey. It is pure spirit, made of the same essense as God. Atman cannot change in any way. It never reaches God because it never left in the first place. No matter how good or bad your life, your Atman remains constant; in fact, the worst criminal and the holiest saint have the same quality of soul when it is this aspect that is in question. There is no good aproximation for Atman in the West, and many people wonder why the soul has to be divided in this way.

The answer lies at the virtual level, for we have seen that all of the familiar qualities of life, such as time, space, energy, and matter, gradually fade into a shadowy existence until they disappear. But this disappearance leaves something intact-spirit itself. Jiva lives at the quantum level, Atman at the virtual. So the faintest, subtlest trace of "me" that can be detected at the quantum level is Jiva, and once it disappears, pure spirit remains-that is Atman. The distinction between them is absolutely necessary, for otherwise the path back to God would break down.

[i]You need Jiva to remember who you are personally. You need Atman
to remember yourself as pure spirit.
You need Jiva to have a reason to act, think, wish, and dream. You need
Atman for the peace beyond all action.
You need Jiva to journey through time and space. You need Atman to live in the timeless.
You need Jiva to preserve personality and identity. You need Atman
to become universal, beyond identity.[/i]


As you can see they are melded together as "soul," these two aspects are exact opposites in many ways. Such is the paradox of the soul that it manages to accommadate itself to our world of time, thought, and action while dwelling eternally in the spiritual world. The soul must be half-human, half-divine in order to give us a way to retain our identity during all the prayer, meditation, seeking, and other spiritual work that is involved in finding God, and yet the soul must have a divine aspect that embodies the goal of all seeking.

On the material level I am not aware of my Atman. I walk and talk and think without any consciousness that my source lies much deeper. But at the soul level I am totally aware of who I am. The soul level is a very strange place, because it gives rise to all activity without being activity itself. Think about that carefully. As I travel around from here to there, my soul doesn't move, because at the quantum level the field just ripples and vibrates-it doesn't change location from A to B. I am born , grow old and die-these events have tremendous significance for my body and mind. Yet, at the quantum level nothing is born, grows old, or dies. There is no such thing as an old photon. We can get some clues to this riddle from a common device, a television set. When you see a TV character walking from left to right on the screen your brain registers a false impression. Nothing on that screen, not a single electron, has actually moved from left to right. With a magnifying glass you would see that the only activity taking place is the flickering of phosphers on the surface of the cathode- ray tube. If phospher A is to the left of phospher B, its flicker can be timed so that just as it goes off, phospher B lights up. This trick makes it look as if something has moved from left to right, just as twinkling Christmas lights seem to circle around the tree.

Now let's apply the same trick to ourselves. When I get out of my chair and walk across the room, my body seems to be moving, but in fact nothing of the sort is happening at the quantum level. Instead, a series of virtual particles is flickering in and out to create the illusion of motion. This is such an important point that I want to give several more examples. Go to the beach where ocean waves are crashing on the shore. If you wade out and put a cork on the water, your senses will tell you that it will be carried along by the waves-but it isn't. The cork stays in place , bobbing up and down as the waves pass along. The water is also just moving up and down. It is the same water that hits the shore, not new water carried from miles away. The wave motion takes place only at the energy level, creating the illusion that the water is getting nearer to the shore.

Now the examples get more mysterious: When two magnets are drawn to each other, what pulls them is the magnetic field. But the field itself doesn't move. All over the world compass needles are wiggling, but the earth's magnetic poles aren't. How does a non-moving field make a needle or two heavy pieces of iron move? Again it is an illusion-at the quantum level, virtual photons, acting as carriers of the magnetic force, flicker in and out, and because they do this in sequence, the appearance of motion is created.
Let's assume that we can accept the fact that you and I are not moving, either. To a quantum physicist, our bodies are just objects, like any other. A ball thrown across the room isn't moving, only winking in and out of existence at an incredibly fast speed at different locations, and we are no different. But here the mystery deepens. When the ball disappears for a nanosecond, only to reappear just the tiniest bit to the left or right, why didn't it disintegrate? After all it was completely absent for a while, and there is no reason why its old shape and size and color shouldn't simply dissolve.Quantum physics can even calculate the odds that it won't reappear, that instead of a ball flying across the room, a bowl of pink Jell-o will suddenly appear. What keeps things together?

If we go back to the television the answer is obvious. The characters walking across the screen are just phantoms, but they are organized phantoms. Their image is fixed on film or video tape, their motions are planned and worked out. In other words, there is intelligence behind the illusion. This presiding intelligence keeps the random flickers of photons from being truly random; it creates forms from formless electrical charges. For it turns out that not just the motion of a TV image is illusion, so is its color and shape. So is its voice if the characters happen to speak. No matter what quality you look for it can be broken down to pulses of energy and these pulsations have meaning only because a hidden director has created it.

This is essentially the argument for the soul. It holds reality together; it is my offscreen director , my presiding intelligence. I can think, talk, work, love, and dream, all because of the soul, yet the soul doesn't do any of these things. It is me , yet I would never recognize it if we came face- to- face. Everything that makes the difference between life and death must cross into this world via the soul.

Today I sat down to see if I could list all of the invisable events happening at the soul level, and the results inspire a deep awe at the "soul work"(which the medieval church called [i]psychomachia[/i]) going on with every breath:

Infinity is becoming finite.

The unmoving is starting to move.

The universe is shrinking to a location inside of you.

Eternity is taking on the appearance of time.

Uncertianty is becoming certian.

The undefined is becoming definite.

That which has no cause is starting the chain of cause and effect.

Transcendence is coming doewn to earth.

The divine is taking on a body.

Randomness is turning into patterns.

The immortal is pretending to be born.

Reality is putting on the mask of illusion.

You share this work with God. He can be defined in infinite ways, but one version of God is that he is a process. The process involves bringing life into being. Science has its story about how life originated two billion years ago from a soup of organic chemicals. This soup, probably contained in the earth's ancient oceans, was struck by lightening and began to boil into primitive self-reproducing nucleic acids, from which the long chain of evolution proceeded. But, from the spiritual viewpoint, life is being created all the time through the kind of soul work just listed.

There is more to life than just raw creation. The soul , as every religious tradition has insisted, exists to bring an end to suffering. The same cannot be said about any other aspect of ourselves. The mind, ego and emotions cause as much pain as pleasure; they can throw us into turmoil and confusion despite all our efforts to reach clarity and peace. The soul has been asigned the unique function of working only for what is most evolutionary in each person's life. It couldn't accomplish this end by turning the infinite into the finite, the timeless into time, and so forth-these processes have no human value until we add another ingredient, the dispelling of suffering.

Someone attuned to the soul begins to perceive that a subtle guidence is at work.The soul is silent; therefore it cannot compete with the contentious voices heard in the mind. You can spend years overshadowed by anger, fear, greed, ambition,, and all the other distractions of inner life, but none of that activity touches Atman. The soul has its own projects in mind. The Vedas describe this project in terms of the five [i]kleshas[/i], or causes of human suffering. They are:

1. Ignorance about the nature of reality

2. Identification with the ego

3. Attraction toward objects of desire

4. Repulsion from objects of desire

5. Fear of death

The great sages and seers who laid out this scheme of suffering all emphasize that all five causes boil down to one-the very first. When a person forgets that he has a soul, that his source is rooted in eternal Being, separation results, and from separation all other pain and suffering follows."


And with that I end this for now , perhaps , there is enough here to chew on for a while. I love how Deepak has combined an understanding of the Vedas, ancient teachings with modern quantum physics. Anyway for those interested, enjoy.:)

[Edited on 15-4-2006 by Shayalana]


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[quote][i]Originally posted by starduster[/i]
once you understand your "role" in the unification of the species...you will not want to "leave"...but contribute your unique individuality as a part of the "clockworks" or piece of the puzzel that will not be complete without YOU...until you fulfill your "mission"
[Edited on 8-7-2005 by starduster] [/quote]

I think of this often. I know why I am here as I remember my mission before I was even born here. When I have moments of ...difficult to find the words....I'll just say, dissapointment, I recall the reason I chose to be here and it balances my thoughts and gives me a new vision of purpose.

My favorite verse:

Hebrews 12:1

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us set aside all weight and sin and run the race with perserverance that is set before us.

I see this as a reminder to walk the walk of GodChristConsciousness.

Love,
Kimberlee


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Kimberlee and Starduster, as astute and humble as you are I bow to you. Thanks.


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Mr~ Mojo, dear friend where are you?

[Edited on 20-4-2006 by Shayalana]


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Shayalana,Do you think religions have mucked up our true perception,perspective about how we Veiw The After-Life? Another question, Does the After-Life exist because of Us,or because of The After-Life? And other words,which of these came First,The after-life,or Life? Why is there a after-life,Are we already stationed with-in our Chambers of Self? Do you ever get creep out,just from the word-Chamber,have you ever had a strange feeling of being placed into a chamber? What kinds of THINGs come to Mind when you go to sleep at night,and think of the Word Chamber as a Trigger? Many speak of The Soul,and The Chamber of Self, Should it look like a Matrix,or a Holographic virtual Reality,or is it something totally different when You step out of it? What do you think a Pod is,or seed-Isnt a Pod a chamber,and a seed the New Form/Scion? Are we going further with-in the mind-or trying to come out of the vessel/The Pod? Do you think that perhaps this future conflict,is between those who want to stay with-in the Holographic virtual reality,and those who want to finally awaken from there Sleep Chambers? Many spiritualist spoke of the Luciferic Energy,and what could happen if humankind was awaken to quickly,could those who would step out of there Pods/chambers of Self,could cause somekind of Dimensional shift,that could awaken the anima/ladylove? Is The Animus a Incubus,or was this to have kind of sounds like Mabus. Do You think if Man was left with Out his Ladylove,he may become more distructive? Women was a scion of The first Man,a graft,a rib of Man/bone/DNA. Has Man some how been affected from all of the Wars,or is it Usage of Power,Creating weapons of destruction. Iam sure that there are women scientist who have helped and this destructive force,yet I wonder,why we have no other methods of communication,why does it always have to be violence? Are we here to stop War?


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the war is already over :) Living in the moment of NOW...all realities exist in "timelessness"... no before or after... but the realization of ALL that IS.

[b]. A being cannot get closer to First Source than in the existence of a moment.[/b]

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zoa, my sweet sister, we are here to stop the war. We are here to stop the war within ourselves and come to a loving and peaceful resolution before anything outside of ourselves can reflect the same. Our mother earth is letting much fly right now. Those deep dark and some stinky shadows have come to surface and that is a good thing for they can no longer fester underneath any more for the light of day has hit them to cleanse and refine and re-solve them. We are here to facilitate that process. No matter if man or woman although woman seem to be more in touch with feelings and the heart center. And they will be given a difficult time by those of soley intellect bend because the heart is so foreign or insignificant to them . They know not the nature of true power. It lies in Love and in not a way they know for they have always poopooed it. We know and with that can and are wonderful demonstrators of it. Interesting about Chambers, I have a few and not all resemble this world. In some I am a zipping flash of light and in others I am suspended in a blacker than black void so utterly and absolutely relaxed , resting. In others I am on a mountiantop viewing a starlight sky so lit with stars it is hard to believe it is night. In others I am in a library that has everything I want to know. It all depends on where I am with myself in any given moment. And that is never the same way twice. As to Lucifer I believe that that is a concept fed and grown through the millenium to appear to be not what it was/is originally. It is amazing how we can grow thoughts into something so big and to some quite scarey. A garden of thoughts what does yours contain my sweet sister? What we focus on the most is what we get. Where do you want that focus to be for you?


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Zoa, I so appreciate all that you share. You do so in such a way like no other. There is such depth there and I always learn or see in a different way after I read your postings. Thank you.


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[quote][i]Originally posted by zoarastera[/i]
...Do you ever get creep out,just from the word-Chamber,have you ever had a strange feeling of being placed into a chamber? What kinds of THINGs come to Mind when you go to sleep at night,and think of the Word Chamber as a Trigger? Many speak of The Soul,and The Chamber of Self, Should it look like a Matrix,or a Holographic virtual Reality,or is it something totally different when You step out of it? What do you think a Pod is,or seed-Isnt a Pod a chamber,and a seed the New Form/Scion? Are we going further with-in the mind-or trying to come out of the vessel/The Pod? Do you think that perhaps this future conflict,is between those who want to stay with-in the Holographic virtual reality,and those who want to finally awaken from there Sleep Chambers? [/quote]

As always Zoa, you give me food for thought. I have often wondered about the chamber concept. I've had the very same wonderings...

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[quote][i]Originally posted by zoarastera[/i]
What kinds of THINGs come to Mind when you go to sleep at night,and think of the Word Chamber as a Trigger? Many speak of The Soul,and The Chamber of Self, Should it look like a Matrix,or a Holographic virtual Reality,or is it something totally different when You step out of it? What do you think a Pod is,or seed-Isnt a Pod a chamber,and a seed the New Form/Scion? Are we going further with-in the mind-or trying to come out of the vessel/The Pod? [b]Do you think that perhaps this future conflict,is between those who want to stay with-in the Holographic virtual reality,and those who want to finally awaken from there Sleep Chambers?[/b] [/quote]

Many good questions here Zoa.

I think this is the separation point from 3D to 4D. Those who choose to stay in the matrix will remain in 3D. Those who are ready to stretch out, awaken and step out will move into 4D.

[quote][i]Originally posted by zoarastera[/i]
Many spiritualist spoke of the Luciferic Energy,and what could happen if humankind was awaken to quickly,could those who would step out of there Pods/chambers of Self,could cause somekind of Dimensional shift,that could awaken the anima/ladylove? Is The Animus a Incubus,or was this to have kind of sounds like Mabus. Do You think if Man was left with Out his Ladylove,he may become more distructive? Women was a scion of The first Man,a graft,a rib of Man/bone/DNA. Has Man some how been affected from all of the Wars,or is it Usage of Power,Creating weapons of destruction. Iam sure that there are women scientist who have helped and this destructive force,yet [b]I wonder,why we have no other methods of communication,why does it always have to be violence? Are we here to stop War?[/b] [/quote]

We do have other methods of communication, but the majority are stuck in animalistic mindsets. Fear, lack, need.

Until those who are living in this mindset see and embrace another paradigm, we will continue to see them at war.

The peacemakers make a big impact in balancing out the negative energies that the animalistic mindset releases.

Few are the peacemakers. May we all embrace peace and love with one'self and certainly with others.

Love,
Kimberlee


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I go to sleep at night and think of the word chamber and wake up the next morning with so much information that answers the 1000 questions I had before.


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